Author Topic: confused on universe 2 with passive hub  (Read 2331 times)

Online arw01

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confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« on: August 09, 2014, 05:27:26 PM »
I always manage to get myself turned around with this.

Computer
Etherdongle
Pixelnet out to active hub
active hub set to universe 2 and universe 2 (on each of the jumper blocks)
passive hub connected to pixelnet out of active hub

uSSC's 4 of them programmed to run my matrix from 4097 and up approx 510 channels

Xlights nutcracker test sequence..

If I load pixelnet universe 2 I get no blinkie

if I load pixelnet universe 2 I get blinkie from the uSSC

So I made a Cat 6 rj45 into a white/.green  blue into pair 1 via this jack and plug the other end into the passive hub since it only looks for data on pairs 1-2 from the input.

again as long as I tell nutcracker channels 1-4096 I have output, when I load universe 2 I get diddly.

SO how messed up do I have myself and my uSSC programming, are they really supposed to be programmed for 1-4096 if they come out of the 4 port passive hub?


Offline MrChristmas2000

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 05:51:45 PM »
Pixelnet universe 1/5 is on pins 1 & 2, Pixelnet universe 2/6 is on pins 3 & 4, Pixelnet universe 3/7 is on pins 5 & 6, and Pixelnet universe 4/8 is on pins 7 & 8.

Each Pixelnet universe is addressed 1 - 4096.

If you programmed a uSC to address 1 and set the jumpers on the hub to universe 2 then the effective address of that uSC would become 4097.

When you use the 'Smart String Grouping' software to program your uSC you will see two address numbers. For example I have an uSC programmed for Pixelnet address 12289 in the boxes under description named Current Start Channel and New Start Channel. If you have never programmed the device all you have to do is enter that address in the New Start Channel box. BUT if I look over in the 'Controllers' section under 'Hub-addr' I will see a value of one which is effectively the start address of the 4th Pixelnet universe of 1 - 4096. The program does the conversion of the Pixelnet address you enter in the New Start Channel to the correct address for that particular Pixelnet universe.

The Pixelnet IN/OUT is effectively pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin2 etc. The Jumpers just divert which ever pair of Pixelnet universe wires into the RJ45 matrix of connectors.

Any Ethernet cable that is not a null cable will be usable.

Oh yeah, dont forget to select the 'V4 controller' button to add in the device.

Does this help any?

Offline MyKroFt

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 05:52:14 PM »
where are you plugging the passive hub into?

If plugged into 1 of the 16 outputs if you will get same pixelnet unv via the jumpers - W/POWER - do not cross wires to diff locations! running down the cat cable.  If you plug it into the pixelnet out, you are only gonna get unv 1 because its only looking on the orange/orangewhite pair for data

What you really need to a pixelnet combiner/splitter - plug it into the pixelnet output (not ssc outputs) and then select what plug equals what unv you need - then supply 12v via the screw terminals on the passive hub

Tony

Offline David Pitts

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 07:07:46 PM »
A four port passive hub?
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Online arw01

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 07:13:51 PM »
Yep 4 port passive hub.

Out of my active hub I am going out the pixelnet out.

I tried straight to pixelnet in on the passive hub and as long as I did nutcracker universe 1 aka 1-4096 I could get blinkie (my uSSC are programmed for 4097- and up)

So I made a RJ45 jack that took the white/green from pin 3 to pin 1, and blue from pin4 to pin 2, thinking that pixelnet universe 2 would be down that set of wires.

Plugged that into the passive hub and I still only get results if I choose universe 1 channels 1-4096, no repsonse on 4097- which is what I expect to be seeing with Falcon Firmware.

Alan

Offline MrChristmas2000

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 07:23:10 PM »
I need to correct my earlier post.

The pin pairs are actually PN universe 1 is Pins 1 and 2, PN universe 2 is Pins 3 and 6, PN universe 3 is Pins 5 and 4 and PN universe 4 is pins 7 and 8.

The 4 port passive hub only uses pins 1 and 2.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this as well.

Pins 1, 3,  5 and 7 basically is the same polarity of the signal and Pins 2, 6. 4 and 7 is the other. Don't remember which is + and -.

Offline David Pitts

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 07:30:47 PM »
Make cable from active to passive.. pins 3 and 6 on active to 1 and 2 on passive.

Offline MrChristmas2000

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 07:25:11 AM »
Expanding on this further would someone confirm that this information is correct.

RJ45 Signal Layout for IN/OUT through connections
Pin 1 Pixelnet Universe #1 A (White w/Orange Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
Pin 2 Pixelnet Universe #1 B (Orange w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 3 Pixelnet Universe #2 A (White w/Green Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 4 Pixelnet Universe #3 B (Blue w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 5 Pixelnet Universe #3 A (White w/Blue Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
Pin 6 Pixelnet Universe #2 B (Green w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
Pin 7 Pixelnet Universe #4 A (White w/Brown Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 8 Pixelnet Universe #4 B (Brown w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)

All output jacks on both smart and dumb hubs are:
RJ45 pin 1 (Signal Name) A (AKA) Pixelnet Universe #1 A
RJ45 pin 2 (Signal Name) B (AKA) Pixelnet Universe #1 B

One thing further if you have an extra empty port off of a 16 port hub you can just connect the four port passive hub there (since it is going to have it's own power supply anyway) and not mess with building cross over cables. That's how I use my 16 port hub to distribute extra signals across the yard.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 08:36:10 AM by MrChristmas2000 »

Online arw01

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 12:49:07 PM »
will give that  a try, Tom.  What pushed me in the direction of moving pins 3-4 to pins 1-2 from the cat 5 jack is this pdf from rj's site that made me think 1-2 universe 1  3-4 universe 2 5-6 universe 3 7-8 universe 4 straight off the cat 5 jack.



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Offline MyKroFt

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 01:18:05 PM »
Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Online arw01

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 01:22:31 PM »
Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

A passive hub pixelnet in port only carries pairs 1-2 to the other ports, no chance of power going either way.  Hence the need to custom do a cable to bring other universes down apparently.

Alan

Offline MrChristmas2000

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 01:30:44 PM »
Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The diyla 4 port passive hub only connects to pins 1 and 2 which are signal. There is no other connections to the incoming power for that passive hub. It requires that you have a separate power supply for the 4 ports.

You are correct you cannot plug a 16 port hub into the port of another 16 port either Falcon or diylia hub because of the power on pins 3  to 8.

It is ONLY the diyla 4 port passive hub that can be safely connected that way.



Offline MyKroFt

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 03:14:33 PM »
It is still not safe or recommended - you are still sending power down those wires to a device - it was never meant to be connected that way.

Tony


Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The diyla 4 port passive hub only connects to pins 1 and 2 which are signal. There is no other connections to the incoming power for that passive hub. It requires that you have a separate power supply for the 4 ports.

You are correct you cannot plug a 16 port hub into the port of another 16 port either Falcon or diylia hub because of the power on pins 3  to 8.

It is ONLY the diyla 4 port passive hub that can be safely connected that way.

Offline CaptainMurdoch

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 05:18:05 PM »
I believe the diagrams on the DLA wiki show that exact scenario, daisy chaining a DLA 4-port passive hub off of one of the 16 outputs on a DLA 16-port hub.  http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=PassiveHub4Use. It isn't clear but the diagram indicates that this was part of the design. 

I agree there still is the possible issue of danger as Tony describes.   Whichever method you use to feed the passive hub you should label the cables carefully because there is just about as much danger in having an unmarked universe crossover cable as there is in plugging a 16-port hub into one of the powered output ports on another 4 or 16 port hub.  If you use that crossover in the wrong place you could put 12v across the wrong wired on a SSC or at minimum blow a fuse on the hub.
-
Chris

Offline MrChristmas2000

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Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 07:19:23 PM »
Ok, I do agree if there is a problem with the cable that it carrying power could cause some damage.

I used it the way the DLA spec called for last year without problem. I believe it should be up to the individual if they want to chance doing it that way or not.

I think we have beat this subject into submission. LOL.

 

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