Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?

Author Topic: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?  (Read 4240 times)

Offline vladakru

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Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« on: December 13, 2015, 01:21:19 PM »
If Renard communicates with the PC via RS232 with only 2 wires (TX and GND), why can not RPI to communicate with Renard over gpio tx and gnd pin?
but must be used rs485 communication?
It is incomprehensible to me ...

Offline CaptainMurdoch

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2015, 10:58:02 AM »
Sorry, I assumed you wanted RS485.

You can try connecting directly to the TX pin, but if it doesn't work, you may need a level shifter to get up to 5V since the TX pin is at 3.3V.
-
Chris

Offline vladakru

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2015, 03:19:43 PM »
I managed to solve the problem with a Serial-Shifter under this scheme with some modifications.


Offline Skunberg

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2015, 03:46:05 PM »
Thank you for the update.

Offline ggusta

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 12:02:51 PM »
 :o ???

Ok, we're slow learners over here, so I am maybe overcomplicating things a wee bit.

We're new to raspberry pi/fpp actually we just received our rpi 2/b on Friday. We managed to get fpp installed/networked and exported our (vixen 3.2) .tim sequences (as .fseq) and uploaded all sequences and audio via the browser interface.

But, I'm still baffled as to how we will get it all to work!!! Do we just use the ethernet cable to go straight out to the renards? (We aren't going wireless, at least not for 2016's shows)

We intend to add a bridge this year (12 24channel renards for a theoretical 288 maximum channel count - actual channel count is 250-260) 

Presently we use a usb285/485 (or whatever the heck it is called!) from our windows 7 pc's serial output to ethernet. 2015 had 192 channel (theoretical). 8 -24 ch renard. 

Sorry, just a bit dense over here.

Offline CaptainMurdoch

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2016, 12:22:34 PM »
Presently we use a usb285/485 (or whatever the heck it is called!) from our windows 7 pc's serial output to ethernet. 2015 had 192 channel (theoretical). 8 -24 ch renard. 

If you use a USB serial dongle on Windows 7, then you can probably plug that directly into the Pi and then go to the "Other" tab on the FPP Channel Outputs config screen and add a Renard output.  Select "ttyUSB0" as the serial device, set the speed and start channel, save it, restart fppd, and then you should be able to use the channel test page under the status menu to test the new output.

Offline ggusta

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2016, 01:04:44 PM »
It's a serial connector - the back of the pc had a serial output. I think it's called a db9 output connector, but I am not exactly techie. So, no, to my knowledge I have no usb output to the rs485/rj45 jack.

It plugs into the serial output and then we plug the ethernet cable into that.

Does that help?

thx for the fast answer.
Gregg

off topic....3 verification questions on each post? Is that necessary?

Offline tbone321

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2016, 03:52:43 PM »
You may be able to get away with a USB to serial converter.  It's just a matter of if the PI and FPP recognizes the converter.  What converter are you using between the PC and the Renard controllers?

Offline ggusta

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 10:15:43 AM »
the converter we bought is I think a serial to 232/485 adapter which terminates as an rj45 port that we plug our cat5 cable into. It's about 2-3 inches long and we got on ebay for a minimal expenditure, like $5 or so.  So I see these cables when I look for a usb to rs485 with a rj45 jack it would be appx $22 incl s/h.
http://www.amazon.com/USB2-0-Interface-Adapter-Converter-Chipset/dp/B008BZBJ92/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1456333702&sr=1-1&keywords=usb+to+rs485+rj45

is this the right thing to add ? ( if I want to continue to pursue it )  or are there more appropriate or cheaper solutions?  Considering the reality that we are adding a bridge, I get confused because the wiki at diyc says if we add a bridge, then the need for a rs485 conversion is not needed....

http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=E1.31_Bridge
' It replaces multiple DMX or RS485 dongles with one configurable device ...'  so given my lack of tech expertise, when I see sentences like that I really am scratching my head asking myself why am I needing the dongle at all and also am confused as to where I am feeding from the pi to the bridge, is it from the usb port or the rj45 port?


so many questions, and it seems the more I think I have the answer, I am somehow less certain than before. Conceptually, I am following along just fine, but when it gets down to brass tacks, it all sort of falls apart for me.

Offline tbone321

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 11:12:14 AM »
the converter we bought is I think a serial to 232/485 adapter which terminates as an rj45 port that we plug our cat5 cable into. It's about 2-3 inches long and we got on ebay for a minimal expenditure, like $5 or so.  So I see these cables when I look for a usb to rs485 with a rj45 jack it would be appx $22 incl s/h.
http://www.amazon.com/USB2-0-Interface-Adapter-Converter-Chipset/dp/B008BZBJ92/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1456333702&sr=1-1&keywords=usb+to+rs485+rj45

Since I don't know exactly what you are using now, I can't say for sure that this is want you need but from your description, it looks like it should work just fine provided the PI recognizes it.

is this the right thing to add ? ( if I want to continue to pursue it )  or are there more appropriate or cheaper solutions?  Considering the reality that we are adding a bridge, I get confused because the wiki at diyc says if we add a bridge, then the need for a rs485 conversion is not needed....

If you are going to add a bridge, then there is no need to continue down this path unless you want or need a Renard output that is both close to the PI and far away from the bridge.

http://www.doityourselfchristmas.com/wiki/index.php?title=E1.31_Bridge
' It replaces multiple DMX or RS485 dongles with one configurable device ...'  so given my lack of tech expertise, when I see sentences like that I really am scratching my head asking myself why am I needing the dongle at all and also am confused as to where I am feeding from the pi to the bridge, is it from the usb port or the rj45 port?

The bridge is an Ethernet device and will connect to the PI's Ethernet port (RJ45) either directly or through a switch or even your home network depending on how you integrate the PI into your show and home network.  Some people create a separate show network using the PI and their show controllers while others simply connect the PI and controllers to their home networks depending for the most part on the version of E1.31 that they are using.  People using the multicast version of E1.31 tend to create a separate show network to prevent the invasive multicast packets from grinding there home networks to a crawl where those using the unicast version can go either way since unicast has little effect on most modern home networks.  The bridge that you are looking at can work with either type of E1.31which gives you a lot of flexibility in your network configuration.

so many questions, and it seems the more I think I have the answer, I am somehow less certain than before. Conceptually, I am following along just fine, but when it gets down to brass tacks, it all sort of falls apart for me.

The trick to it is not to get lost in the details at first.  What you might want to do is create a simple diagram of your PI and controllers (including the bridge) to give you a view of what you want to do.  Then if you post it, the people here can look at it and let you know if something will not work that way or help you to refine your design to both cut costs and increase capability.

Offline ggusta

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 12:09:04 PM »
ok, so let me describe the proposed network here and also ask for a couple of clarifications on the idea of the separate network. and perhaps the final stumbling block is I am unclear how do I control the pi once its sole rj45 jack is occupied by being attached to the router.

As you have clarified for me, no usb to rs485 dongle is needed given that I will be using a bridge? Is that correct?

Network is pretty simple.
if that is so, then I will
  • attach the rj45 output of the pi to a router input,
  • then from the router output, go to a e1.31 bridge
  • and from there, out to the renards.
Do I need a router or will a switch suffice? (I seem to recall having asked this before and cannot recall the answer - sorry, not network savvy, that may be a pretty dumb question. A lot of these questions will seem dumb after we get it working)

Lastly, if my rj45 pi jack is occupied, how in the world do I control the confounded thing if it is occupied? Am I to use wifi? Because I tried with no luck to wirelessly get control of it this past weekend and was completely lost (if Wi-Fi is in fact  an option to control it). Simply adding my wifi password on the browser interface at http://fpp was to no avail.  (I noticed it only had a wpa protocol, my Wi-Fi was wep, so I switched my Wi-Fi settings on my home network to wpa and everything else of course (laptop, tablet, cellphone, upstairs pc) all had to switch over and everything worked fine after the switch ...except the pi...


PS - [edit] guess I should have quoted this is in response to the post directly preceding this.

Given the fact that I have ZERO network skills up to now, I think I am doing OK setting the pi up, but that doesn't mean this isn't as frustrating as can be. It's like learning to drive by watching youtube videos of someone trying to explain how to drive. Only trickier. And some of these questions must seem completely ignorant to a person with networking experience. Sorry for that. I'm still willing to learn but definitely need a little more hand holding than the typical enthusiast seems to need.

thanks for everyone's patience.
gg
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 12:42:04 PM by ggusta »

Offline tbone321

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 09:10:31 PM »
ok, so let me describe the proposed network here and also ask for a couple of clarifications on the idea of the separate network. and perhaps the final stumbling block is I am unclear how do I control the pi once its sole rj45 jack is occupied by being attached to the router.

As you have clarified for me, no usb to rs485 dongle is needed given that I will be using a bridge? Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct.  The bridge outputs will handle all of the Renard and DMX lines.

Network is pretty simple.
if that is so, then I will
  • attach the rj45 output of the pi to a router input,
  • then from the router output, go to a e1.31 bridge
  • and from there, out to the renards.
Do I need a router or will a switch suffice? (I seem to recall having asked this before and cannot recall the answer - sorry, not network savvy, that may be a pretty dumb question. A lot of these questions will seem dumb after we get it working)

While some like to use a router, you really don't need one.  A switch will work just fine.  The primary reason that some like to use a router is so that they can access their show network from their home network.  This allows them to access the devices on the show network to make configuration changes.  You can do that with a switch as well provided you have access to one of the ports.   

Lastly, if my rj45 pi jack is occupied, how in the world do I control the confounded thing if it is occupied? Am I to use wifi? Because I tried with no luck to wirelessly get control of it this past weekend and was completely lost (if Wi-Fi is in fact  an option to control it). Simply adding my wifi password on the browser interface at http://fpp was to no avail.  (I noticed it only had a wpa protocol, my Wi-Fi was wep, so I switched my Wi-Fi settings on my home network to wpa and everything else of course (laptop, tablet, cellphone, upstairs pc) all had to switch over and everything worked fine after the switch ...except the pi...

Lets not confuse the RJ45 on the PI with the RJ45 on your serial converter.  The RJ45 on the PI is its Ethernet (network) port and like the network port on your PC, it is capable of doing multiple things at the same time.  WEP is an old protocol and is easily broken so going to WPA is a smart idea, regardless of using it for the PI or not.  If you connect your PI and the bridge to your home network, there is no need for wireless but if you decide to create a separate network for the PI's output and its controllers, then you will need to get the wireless on the PI working.  What wireless adapter are you using?

PS - [edit] guess I should have quoted this is in response to the post directly preceding this.

Given the fact that I have ZERO network skills up to now, I think I am doing OK setting the pi up, but that doesn't mean this isn't as frustrating as can be. It's like learning to drive by watching youtube videos of someone trying to explain how to drive. Only trickier. And some of these questions must seem completely ignorant to a person with networking experience. Sorry for that. I'm still willing to learn but definitely need a little more hand holding than the typical enthusiast seems to need.

thanks for everyone's patience.
gg

Network setup and config is not always as simple as it seems.  There is a lot of automation involved for basic setup that makes it for the most part plug and play but when you deviate from that type of setup, many of these automatic tool don't work and suddenly, things can get much more complicated.  Many of us have had to move to a more custom setup which also tends to mean a lot of manual configurations so there is a pretty solid base of knowledge here to help you out.

Offline ggusta

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 07:12:17 AM »

Yes, that is correct.  The bridge outputs will handle all of the Renard and DMX lines.

Great thanks. Just want to make sure I don't take anything for granted.


Network is pretty simple.
if that is so, then I will
  • attach the rj45 output of the pi to a router input,
  • then from the router output, go to a e1.31 bridge
  • and from there, out to the renards.



While some like to use a router, you really don't need one.  A switch will work just fine.  The primary reason that some like to use a router is so that they can access their show network from their home network.  This allows them to access the devices on the show network to make configuration changes.  You can do that with a switch as well provided you have access to one of the ports.   

Ok so let's say I get a switch with, say, 8 ports, the pi is plugged into it, the bridge is plugged into it and if I plug my pc or whatever into it, then the pc can still control the pi? Is setting this up going to be easy, say on a scale of 1 to 10, given I am not sophisticated, is it like, a 2 (with 10 being hardest)? Anything else I should be aware of on that portion of the network? (If the pc is wifi connected to the home network, I do not really see the necessity of using a router.) I'd prefer the gravy and mashed potatoes are not touching each other.

Lastly, if my rj45 pi jack is occupied, how in the world do I control the confounded thing if it is occupied? Am I to use wifi? Because I tried with no luck to wirelessly get control of it this past weekend and was completely lost (if Wi-Fi is in fact  an option to control it). Simply adding my wifi password on the browser interface at http://fpp was to no avail.  (I noticed it only had a wpa protocol, my Wi-Fi was wep, so I switched my Wi-Fi settings on my home network to wpa and everything else of course (laptop, tablet, cellphone, upstairs pc) all had to switch over and everything worked fine after the switch ...except the pi...
Lets not confuse the RJ45 on the PI with the RJ45 on your serial converter.  The RJ45 on the PI is its Ethernet (network) port and like the network port on your PC, it is capable of doing multiple things at the same time.  WEP is an old protocol and is easily broken so going to WPA is a smart idea, regardless of using it for the PI or not.  If you connect your PI and the bridge to your home network, there is no need for wireless but if you decide to create a separate network for the PI's output and its controllers, then you will need to get the wireless on the PI working.  What wireless adapter are you using?

The adapter that came with the pi is an edimax.

Idk what that means but it appears to be the defacto standard when I went shopping for the pi. if you need greater detail just let me know. When we got the pi it came with an 8gb sd card (thank god, because the only other one I wasn't using was faulty) so anyhow, we installed noobs at first and the pi had no issue connecting wirelessly to our home network and getting onto the internet with it. Then we had to re-format to add fpp (which was a pain, but that's a separate story and nothing to do with any fault of fpp)

So since that time I am not able to control it unless it is wired to our home router via the Ethernet port . I see the settings there, I have read through some how-to's, but again, they seem to be written to wirelessly control the show versus what I am trying to do, I am sure some of it is similar but I can't tell when I read the how-to's which parts do not pertain to me so I quickly get lost.

There has been no lack of effort, but when I get into my Wi-Fi routers browser ui, I am a little apprehensive about fiddling with stuff I don't really understand. And I am not even sure that fiddling with the home wifi router is even needed.  The home router is a Linksys wrtp54g. We got it when we moved in over 10 years ago, it is only capable of b and g wifi, not n and of course not ac. 4 Ethernet ports.  And 2 phone line jacks!

Whichever way I can get control of it is fine, Ethernet, wifi, smoke signals.e1.45, I don't care, but overall (to your point below) I just get a sense of how shallow my knowledge base is and that doesn't help build confidence, so I'd like to know more about why to do stuff like that simply to have more depth of understanding.

Network setup and config is not always as simple as it seems.  There is a lot of automation involved for basic setup that makes it for the most part plug and play but when you deviate from that type of setup, many of these automatic tool don't work and suddenly, things can get much more complicated.  Many of us have had to move to a more custom setup which also tends to mean a lot of manual configurations so there is a pretty solid base of knowledge here to help you out.
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Offline tbone321

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 08:00:39 PM »

Ok so let's say I get a switch with, say, 8 ports, the pi is plugged into it, the bridge is plugged into it and if I plug my pc or whatever into it, then the pc can still control the pi? Is setting this up going to be easy, say on a scale of 1 to 10, given I am not sophisticated, is it like, a 2 (with 10 being hardest)? Anything else I should be aware of on that portion of the network? (If the pc is wifi connected to the home network, I do not really see the necessity of using a router.) I'd prefer the gravy and mashed potatoes are not touching each other.

Connecting the devices to the switch is fairly easy.  The issue will be correctly addressing the components on that switch.  While the PC is pretty easy to setup, the bridge and the PI can be a little trickier since they need to be remotely configured and to do that, it will either need a starting IP address or access to a DHCP server to assign it one.  The PI starts off with a default address and looks for a DHCP server to assign it one on the network it is connected to.  I'm not sure how the bridge works if it can't find a DHCP server.  The first step is to decide on a network address that you want your show network to use and then we can go thru the steps to assign these devices to that address range.  Just remember to make it a different address range from your home network.

The adapter that came with the pi is an edimax.

Idk what that means but it appears to be the defacto standard when I went shopping for the pi. if you need greater detail just let me know. When we got the pi it came with an 8gb sd card (thank god, because the only other one I wasn't using was faulty) so anyhow, we installed noobs at first and the pi had no issue connecting wirelessly to our home network and getting onto the internet with it. Then we had to re-format to add fpp (which was a pain, but that's a separate story and nothing to do with any fault of fpp)

So since that time I am not able to control it unless it is wired to our home router via the Ethernet port . I see the settings there, I have read through some how-to's, but again, they seem to be written to wirelessly control the show versus what I am trying to do, I am sure some of it is similar but I can't tell when I read the how-to's which parts do not pertain to me so I quickly get lost.

Actually, it is not all that different than what you are trying to do.  What they are doing is connecting the PI to the controllers with its Ethernet port which is what you are intending to do.  They also want to keep their show data off of there home networks and are creating a separate network to do it which is again, what you are intending to do with your separate switch.  The PI also needs access to a RTC (real time clock) to get and maintain the date and time so that it can schedule the show and there are two ways to do this.  The first one is to purchase a RTC board and attach it to the PI but this ties up the GPIO pins and many like to use them for other things.  The second and more common way is to give the PI access to the net so that it can access a RTC server for this information.  This is where the wireless portion comes in.  Connecting the PI to your home network gives it the internet access that it needs and since your PI's Ethernet port is tied up on the show network, you can use the wireless interface to connect it to your home network which is once again, what you will wind up doing.  Since the wireless connection is on the home network, the PI can be accessed from that interface which is why it appears that it was written to wirelessly control the show.  While the PI can be accessed wirelessly, it is controlling the show on its wired interface and if someone were to connect a PC to their show network switch, they could control the Pi from there as well.  In your setup, you will be able to access it from either interface as well.
 
The reason that you cannot seem to control the PI from your wireless connection is because you have both interfaces configured in the same address space and this confuses the PI.  With both interfaces on the same network, the PI will use the RJ45 port for all output on that address range.  If you disconnect that port, the PI will lose its ability to communicate back to you.  To correct this problem, first make sure that FPP is connecting to your wireless point.  You can do this by going into troubleshooting commands under the help menu of FPP and see if there is an IP address assigned to the wireless connection and that is has the same first three numbers as the Wired address (Eth0).  If it does, then it is connecting and if not, check your configuration settings and make sure that everything is set up properly.  If it is connecting, go into the Eth0 settings and change it to static and give it an IP address in your show network which can be any address with the third octet (number) different than the one your home network is using.  Set the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0 and leave the gateway address blank.  Then press the update interface button and reboot the PI.  While the PI is rebooting, you can unplug the Ethernet connection and when it finishes rebooting (it may take a few minuets), you should be able to access it wirelessly again. 
 
 
There has been no lack of effort, but when I get into my Wi-Fi routers browser ui, I am a little apprehensive about fiddling with stuff I don't really understand. And I am not even sure that fiddling with the home wifi router is even needed.  The home router is a Linksys wrtp54g. We got it when we moved in over 10 years ago, it is only capable of b and g wifi, not n and of course not ac. 4 Ethernet ports.  And 2 phone line jacks!

I see no reason at this point to mess with the home router and as you said, if you are unfamiliar with those settings, it is best not to mess with them.  You could wind up nocking yourself off of the internet which would make things all the more difficult.

Offline ggusta

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Re: Simple renard 32 and raspberry pi 2 gpio?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2016, 09:42:19 AM »
ok, we have the wifi under control!!!  ;D 8) 
but still cannot get it to do anything with a renard attached, sequence won't play, tests will not turn on any lights.  :'(

 it is connected to a single renard. I have gone into the ui and specified that it is renard protocol. no idea what to do from here. looking elsewhere on the forums for anyone who has had similar issue.

 

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