Author Topic: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels  (Read 449 times)

Offline AJR214

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F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« on: March 11, 2019, 09:01:18 PM »
So I'm looking to maximize my F16v3 with (2) F16v3 Differential Expansion Boards and (8) Differential Receiver Boards. This will give me the full 48 ports to use and a possible 16,320 pixels (48,960 channels). I want to initially setup my Universes so I can make use of every pixel (if and when needed). I will have 6k-8k pixels for my first year. I want to be able to say "I have this new prop and it's near this Dif Receiver Board plugged into Diff Exp Board 1 Port 3, so I'm going to use Universe x with a max of y pixels available." So here is how I broke it all down in Excel (and partially setup and running the first 2 ports on the Falcon) so I can keep track of what I'm putting on each port/universe to tag it correctly in xLights:

F16v3 Port 1 - Universe 1 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 170
F16v3 Port 1 - Universe 2 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 1020 - # Pixels 170
F16v3 Port 1 - Universe 3 - Start Channel 512 - End Channel 1530 - # Pixels 170
.
F16v3 Port 2 - Universe 4 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 170
F16v3 Port 2 - Universe 5 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 1020 - # Pixels 170
F16v3 Port 2 - Universe 6 - Start Channel 512 - End Channel 1530 - # Pixels 170
.
.
.
F16v3 Port 16 - Universe 46 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 170
F16v3 Port 16 - Universe 47 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 1020 - # Pixels 170
F16v3 Port 16 - Universe 48 - Start Channel 512 - End Channel 1530 - # Pixels 170

Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 1 (aka Port 17 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 49 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 1 (aka Port 17 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 50 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 1 (aka Port 17 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 51 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 765 - # Pixels 85
.
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 2 (aka Port 18 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 52 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 2 (aka Port 18 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 53 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 2 (aka Port 18 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 54 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 765 - # Pixels 85
.
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 19 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 55 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 19 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 56 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 19 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 57 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 765 - # Pixels 85
.
.
.
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 4 (aka Port 48 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 142 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 4 (aka Port 48 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 143 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 4 Port 4, Recv Port 4 (aka Port 48 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 144 - Start Channel 511 - End Channel 765 - # Pixels 85

I have the F16v3 Setup for 512/256/256 split for the 3 boards.

The first 48 Universes have 170 pixels (510 Channels) each for the first 16 ports - 8,160 pixels
The remaining 96 Universes have 85 pixels (255 Channels) each for the remaining 32 ports - 8,160 pixels
 
I just want to make sure this is correct. I have the laptop running xLights and the F16v3 plugged in to the same switch. All Diff Receiver boards will be 50-100 feet away using Cat 5. Would there be any potential problems with this config above? Should I get another F16 or other controller in the future, can I continue to setup the Universes this way without any issues? Or is there a Universe limit?

Power issues are not a concern... I have an endless supply of power supplies to do power injection on these 510 pixel runs.

Offline robbiet

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 08:46:43 AM »
Im assuming you know that differential expansion/receivers are not required to use all 16k pixels. You could run 1k from each of the 16 ports on the f16 with lots of power injection. 

Differential receivers just allow you to spread your display out over a wider area. They do make it easy to add power also but are not required if your pixels are all in one area...such as a large mega tree or matrix.


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Offline AJR214

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 08:58:52 AM »
Im assuming you know that differential expansion/receivers are not required to use all 16k pixels. You could run 1k from each of the 16 ports on the f16 with lots of power injection. 

Differential receivers just allow you to spread your display out over a wider area. They do make it easy to add power also but are not required if your pixels are all in one area...such as a large mega tree or matrix.


Yes, I understand that I can just have the F16v3 run 1k pixels from each of the 16 ports and I don't need the expansion boards. I'm utilizing the features Falcon is giving us with the Differential boards to have at least a few less wires running across the yard and taking the data further without worrying about the initial first pixel distance limit. I have some of the front yard planned out where the receivers are going in enclosures, and also running 1 or 2 to the back of the house to light up our screened in pool and party area.


I'm just asking if I plugged in the Universe layout above into the F16v3, if it would work.

Offline David Pitts

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 09:12:31 AM »
The F16v3 can only have 96 universes so you will need to pack the data into those universes. So if you are only using 85 pixels per port each port should use 1/2 universe.
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Offline AJR214

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 10:51:27 AM »
The F16v3 can only have 96 universes so you will need to pack the data into those universes. So if you are only using 85 pixels per port each port should use 1/2 universe.

Thank you David. That is part of the answer I'm looking for. Now, how do I do that on the F16 under E131 Setup and String Ports so it's balanced out to the 96 universe limit? If I read what you're saying correctly, then I should have the expansion ports mapped to the following universes 49-96:

Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 1 (aka Port 17 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 49 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 1 (aka Port 17 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 49 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 1 (aka Port 17 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 50 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
.
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 2 (aka Port 18 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 50 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 2 (aka Port 18 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 51 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 2 (aka Port 18 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 51 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
.
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 19 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 52 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 19 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 52 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 1 Port 1, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 19 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 53 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
.
.
.
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 47 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 94 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 47 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 94 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 3 (aka Port 47 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 95 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
.
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 4 (aka Port 48 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 95 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 2 Port 4, Recv Port 4 (aka Port 48 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 96 - Start Channel 1 - End Channel 255 - # Pixels 85
Diff Exp 4 Port 4, Recv Port 4 (aka Port 48 on F16v3 Setup) - Universe 96 - Start Channel 256 - End Channel 510 - # Pixels 85

Again, I know it's never going to be this uniform and I may not use up all the channels/pixels on each port... but if I have a spreadsheet with a set layout of how to map the pixels to this controller, then it should make my life a little easier.

Online Poporacer

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 11:20:17 AM »
You are putting way more thought into this than needed and making your life complicated. In reality, you should only set up the universes that you are going to actually use or else you could potentially be flooding your network. The nice thing with XLights and Falcon controllers that it is VERY easy to expand your show as you grow.
You show universes with channels that are greater than 512?

But if you insist on setting up all 96 universes, then setup 96 universes and then in your string ports you will start each port at the correct location in the universe. The port does not need to start on a new universe, it can start in the middle.

If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

Offline AJR214

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 08:05:52 PM »
You are putting way more thought into this than needed and making your life complicated.


You're probably right... but I don't know any other way to do it and in my mind, this is the way to do it with what I've seen and tested so far... which is why I'm asking these questions.


Quote
In reality, you should only set up the universes that you are going to actually use or else you could potentially be flooding your network. The nice thing with XLights and Falcon controllers that it is VERY easy to expand your show as you grow.


So if I have universes setup for future use (so I don't have to go back and reconfigure the controller E131 Setup and String Ports), these non-used universe setups are going to broadcast even though xLights isn't calling for them to be lit? Right now i'm just testing strings on the trim of my house hooked to ports 1 (using 216 pixels) & 2 (249 pixels) in xLights. I have each string configured to the controller as ControllerIP:Universe:StartChannel. At christmas, I plan on plugging into the end of these 2 strings and making a second string going back to form an outline (making port 1 have 434 pixels and port 2 have 500 pixels attached) which is why I wanted the ports and universes pre-configured in the F16 so I can just change the number of pixels on that string in xLights.

Quote
But if you insist on setting up all 96 universes, then setup 96 universes and then in your string ports you will start each port at the correct location in the universe. The port does not need to start on a new universe, it can start in the middle.


I didn't understand that before. Thank you for clearing that up.

Offline jnealand

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 08:13:40 PM »
You are way overthinking this.  Start with what you have and then you will understand the best way to grow.  Trying to maximize your use of a controllor is to my way of thinking just asking for trouble.  I've been doing this for 12 yrs and with multiple manufacturers controllers over the years.  I've learned to always leave room in my controllers to add stuff and / or to have enough room as spares so that I can recover from any given controller failure.  I minimize wires in my yard by putting my controllers near my props.  I have no data wires running between controllers and only use a differential receiver if (BIG IF) I run out of room or have a failure and need to go into backup mode.  But things have a way of changing from year to year and I never try to plan to far ahead as I never know what new equipment or prop is going to catch my (or my spouses) eye in any given year.  To me this is not a hobby to have a rigid long range plan, but a flexible short range plan.
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA all Falcon controllers, all 12v Master Remote Multisync with Pi and BBB P10 and P5

Online Poporacer

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 08:54:03 PM »
You're probably right... but I don't know any other way to do it and in my mind, this is the way to do it with what I've seen and tested so far... which is why I'm asking these questions.
I don't know of any video or other material that says to maximize your ports....show me

Quote
So if I have universes setup for future use (so I don't have to go back and reconfigure the controller E131 Setup and String Ports)
and reconfiguring your controllers and string ports take less than 5 minutes if you use XLights. So why not make it correct for what you are actually doing?
Quote
, these non-used universe setups are going to broadcast even though xLights isn't calling for them to be lit?
Universes are just a way to address the pixels, but the pixels go by just a number, so if you can potentially be broadcasting data for 16,000 pixels (not if the current formats are used)
Quote
Right now i'm just testing strings on the trim of my house hooked to ports 1 (using 216 pixels) & 2 (249 pixels) in xLights. I have each string configured to the controller as ControllerIP:Universe:StartChannel. At christmas, I plan on plugging into the end of these 2 strings and making a second string going back to form an outline (making port 1 have 434 pixels and port 2 have 500 pixels attached) which is why I wanted the ports and universes pre-configured in the F16 so I can just change the number of pixels on that string in xLights.
Again, making the change in Xlights for all of your controllers and string ports takes less than 5 minutes, I actually move things around as I am planning and then just do the update. And you are far less prone for errors.

Offline k6ccc

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 07:26:53 AM »
I'm going to agree that you are complicating your life more than it needs to.  I am rather strongly in favor of the concept that you should not put all your eggs in one basket.  I would much rather put a controller at a prop (or two maybe) and put a different controller elsewhere.  Ethernet is easy to run around and because of my permanent infrastructure, my E1.31 network is available in multiple locations.  The biggest advantage of this in my opinion is that a failure affects far less of the show.  I lose a controller and I lose a prop - you lose a controller and your entire show is dark.  I would much rather lose one prop.  For 2018, I ran four SanDevices E682s, two E6804s, and two PasPi based FPP installations for my P5 & P10 panels.
On the extreme, I have one SanDevices E6804 controller that is used as part of my year round landscape lighting that is driving 17 logical pixels (each pixel is actually an 11 pixel group, so there really are 187 pixels, but they are controlled as 17).
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
Jim

Offline Kensington Graves

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Re: F16v3 Universes/Channels/Pixels
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 08:34:49 PM »
Concur on all the above. 

I would start at the prop level and work your way up from there.  You may find that your channel allocation scheme doesn't work well.  For example, I have a street lamp pole that I decorate with 1200 pixels, plus snowflakes, plus arches.  If I were using your allocation method, I'd have multiple receiver boards at the prop.  Instead, I have a F48 with the first bank set to 600 pixels per output and one receiver board at the prop.  From that same bank, I run the roofline, and I still have two ports (4800 pixels) on that bank, plus another 6,784 pixels spread across the other two banks. While you have a F16v3, the same applies to it, as the F48 is really an F16v3 that has nothing but differential receiver outputs on it.

Don't worry too much about pretty universes.  A universe is just a group of channels.  Universes are cheap (the limit is 64,000 universes, or more than 10 million pixels) and you don't have to fill them.  You can have three channels (a single pixel) in a universe if that works best for your layout.  I think my smallest universe is 39 pixels because that's just how things worked out for the prop.

 

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