Author Topic: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!  (Read 657 times)

Offline JEBariffic

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Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« on: April 04, 2019, 11:29:28 PM »
Honestly I've tried to work this out for 2 solid weeks and can't figure it out, so I appreciate everyone's patience and help.

Attached is error I'm getting when uploading output from xLights to Falcon, my Layout and Layout details, and the configuration I manually entered into the Falcon.

Starting with my tree, I have 8 strings with 122 nodes each for a total of 976 nodes / 2,928 channels. My thinking was I would plug in the first string of the tree into Falcon port 1, and the 2,928 channels would consume universes 1 thru 6; 510 channels per universe * 6 = 3,060 channels available, leaving 132 channels unused before I move onto universe 7 / port 2 to drive my star. The layout details attached matches this math, but in the first warning makes no sense to me. I kind of get 3061 is the start of Universe 7 and indeed there is a gap (132 channels) but where does the 732 come from?

And then the error on port 3... Port 3 is the start of 4 matrixes that have 4 strings of 50 nodes: 4 X 4 X 50 = 800. How is it getting 1596 nodes out of that?

And another thing that has me stumped... I'm trying to use the Test tool in xLights with one of my matrixes plugged into port 8 of the Falcon, and can't get any response. I'm guessing once I get the above resolved the test tool will work, but throwing that out here.

I just want to make pretty lights... didn't realize there was so much maths involved. Appreciate greatly any help!





« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 11:38:39 PM by JEBariffic »

Offline David Pitts

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2019, 01:10:42 AM »
Typically these types of errors are related to model string counts and how they map to ports on controller.

Things to note:
When you define a string count for a model the string variable is same as saying this model will use this amount of ports. So an 8 "string" model will consome 8 physical ports on controller when xLights maps to a controller. So if you have a 8 string model that starts on Port 1 in the Controller connection that model will use ports 1-8. No other models can use those ports (in most cases, you tag a model onto port 8 possibly).

So make sure your string counts are same as physical ports needed. If you are connecting multiple strings to same port then set the actual string count to ports needed with proper node count and then use the "strand" variable to indicate how many physical strings are connected to each port.

So in conclusion make sure "string" count equals "physical port count" then set the first port for the model in controller connection.
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Offline AAH

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 01:19:15 AM »
There's a couple of issues. The 1st 1 to address is on the Falcon configuration. You have the 6 props all starting on FPP channel 1. They should be 1, 3071, 3571 etc. The other issue is that in your xlights config (and hence Falcon config) you have more than the max 1024 pixels defined  per output. Your matrix has 1800ish pixels out the 4 matrices 1-4 all on output 3 of the Falcon. This needs to be reduced to around half that.

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2019, 05:45:04 AM »



Some of this will be "fixed" in the next version of xLights.    I committed a change two days ago that, if your Falcon is in absolute mode, xLights will upload everything in absolute mode and keep it that way.   Thus, it's a ton easier to match up things between xLights and the Falcon.   

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2019, 06:52:29 AM »
Some of this will be "fixed" in the next version of xLights.    I committed a change two days ago that, if your Falcon is in absolute mode, xLights will upload everything in absolute mode and keep it that way.   Thus, it's a ton easier to match up things between xLights and the Falcon.


I spoke about 1/2 too soon....   2019.20 is out which will support uploads in Absolute mode if the falcon is configured that way.


Offline Poporacer

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2019, 08:10:41 AM »
There's a couple of issues. The 1st 1 to address is on the Falcon configuration. You have the 6 props all starting on FPP channel 1.
Yes they are on channel 1 but a different universe so it is correct. When moving to a new universe, the channel number will begin at 1
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They should be 1, 3071, 3571 etc.
So when using the universe notation, you should never have a value here over 512 (or in his case 510 since that is the universe size he chose)
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The other issue is that in your xlights config (and hence Falcon config) you have more than the max 1024 pixels defined  per output. Your matrix has 1800ish pixels out the 4 matrices 1-4 all on output 3 of the Falcon. This needs to be reduced to around half that.
I am not sure where you got these figures from. He stated that each matrix is 4 strings of 50 pixels for a total of 200 pixels per matrix. And he has 4 of these matrices for a total of 800 pixels. His math seems correct?  Even the channel counts in XLights match his math. I don't see 1800ish pixels on port 3 like you have indicated, what am I missing?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 11:55:13 AM by Poporacer »
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Offline Poporacer

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2019, 08:54:26 AM »
Honestly I've tried to work this out for 2 solid weeks and can't figure it out, so I appreciate everyone's patience and help.
I respect trying to figure this out on your own! We have all been there, but you don't need to wait 2 weeks before you seek help! The people in the Zoom room are a tremendous resource as well.

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Attached is error I'm getting when uploading output from xLights to Falcon, my Layout and Layout details, and the configuration I manually entered into the Falcon.

Starting with my tree, I have 8 strings with 122 nodes each for a total of 976 nodes / 2,928 channels. My thinking was I would plug in the first string of the tree into Falcon port 1, and the 2,928 channels would consume universes 1 thru 6; 510 channels per universe * 6 = 3,060 channels available, leaving 132 channels unused before I move onto universe 7 / port 2 to drive my star. The layout details attached matches this math, but in the first warning makes no sense to me. I kind of get 3061 is the start of Universe 7 and indeed there is a gap (132 channels) but where does the 732 come from?
Your math seems correct to me and I am not sure where the 732 come from, maybe one of the developers can clarify that? But if you set up your Megatree as having 8 strings in Xlights, this could be a majority of your problem as David Pitts mentioned, a string is not how you purchased the lights or how it zig zags back and forth. A string references how many ports the model is going to use. So if you are only using one port for your Megatree, then it only has one string.

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And then the error on port 3... Port 3 is the start of 4 matrixes that have 4 strings of 50 nodes: 4 X 4 X 50 = 800. How is it getting 1596 nodes out of that?
Your math seems correct but we can't see your configuration for the matrix and as David Pitts mentioned a string is not how you purchased the lights or how it zig zags back and forth. A string references how many ports the model is going to use. So with this configuration, all of your matrices need to be configured as one string. If that is how you have it set up, let us know. If you had the megatree as 8 strings.....
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And another thing that has me stumped... I'm trying to use the Test tool in xLights with one of my matrixes plugged into port 8 of the Falcon, and can't get any response. I'm guessing once I get the above resolved the test tool will work, but throwing that out here.
It looks like you don't have port 8 on the Falcon configured for any output, so that and your other issues are probably causing your matrix to not respond. Also, there are other issues that could cause this, how do you have your Falcon connected to the network, through a FPP device? Directly to the network with an Ethernet cable? Don't worry, you will get it figured out!

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I just want to make pretty lights... didn't realize there was so much maths involved. Appreciate greatly any help!
You really don't need to do that much math, you are trying to figure out how it came up with the numbers, but you just need to fix your models (I believe that is the problem) and a warning in that listing is letting you know that something "might" be wrong, but the errors will cause problems.

Offline JEBariffic

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2019, 11:56:39 AM »
make sure "string" count equals "physical port count" then set the first port for the model in controller connection.

Awesome... I'm on it.

You have the 6 props all starting on FPP channel 1. They should be 1, 3071, 3571 etc. The other issue is that in your xlights config (and hence Falcon config) you have more than the max 1024 pixels defined  per output. Your matrix has 1800ish pixels out the 4 matrices 1-4 all on output 3 of the Falcon. This needs to be reduced to around half that.


Awesome again... on it.

Some of this will be "fixed" in the next version of xLights.

I appreciate that, but you can't fix (my) stupid!! :-) xLights is AMAZING!... I want to spend the remainder of my days with it.

I respect trying to figure this out on your own! We have all been there, but you don't need to wait 2 weeks before you seek help! The people in the Zoom room are a tremendous resource as well.

You really don't need to do that much math, you are trying to figure out how it came up with the numbers, but you just need to fix your models (I believe that is the problem) and a warning in that listing is letting you know that something "might" be wrong, but the errors will cause problems.

Popo, I just want to be sure I wasn't doing anything blisteringly stupid before I punted to the group. And I agree that once I get a handle on this, to me, more advanced configuration, math wont be a part of it... which will save many, many trees when I wont need any more legal pads for scribbling notes on! :-)


You all rock! Thanks so much. I'll post up results ASAP.

Offline JEBariffic

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2019, 05:31:17 PM »
OK gang... I think I have everything straightened out.

I took the tree and enabled the Indiv Start Channels option, allowing me to create the 8 string (2 strands per string) / 8 universe / 8 port configuration.

I also reconfigured the martixes to be one string but with 4 strands. So my 9 matrixes are consuming universes / ports 10 thru 20 with start channel picking up where previous ended... so my universes will start in odd places within matrixes 2 thru 9, but so be it.


So I think where I went astray is believing that I could run multiple universes thru one port of the Falcon. I did this because I wanted to make the most of each of my 16. Or actually 15 as I shorted one out :-(   

xLights has a 510 (512 actually) channel limit to each port / universe. But the product page for the Falcon says it supports "1024 pixels per output pixel controller." I'm still scratching my head on this. If falcon allows 1024 pixels per output (assuming output = port), how could I take advantage of this? 1024 pixels would equal 3,072 channels per port, right? I could light up my entire street with that, but as it stands getting only 510 (512) channels per port, I've run out of ports for the layout I was trying to create. Am I'm incorrect in my thinking here?



Offline K-State Fan

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2019, 05:42:11 PM »
You can run more than one universe on a port of the falcon


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Offline Poporacer

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2019, 08:05:47 PM »
OK gang... I think I have everything straightened out.

I took the tree and enabled the Indiv Start Channels option, allowing me to create the 8 string (2 strands per string) / 8 universe / 8 port configuration.
That is not the correct way to do this. Here is how you should set up your tree:

#strings-> 1 (remember the # of strings is how many port connections you want to use for this model)
Nodes/String-> 976 (this is the number of pixels on each string that is connected to each port)
Strands/String->8 (this is the number of times that each string connected to one port goes up and down)
Individual Start Channels-> NOT CHECKED
Start Channel-> #1:1

Port->1 (you only need to select the starting port for your model, xLights will make the adjustment depending on the #strings you have entered)

With this setting you will only use one port on your F16, if you do want to use 8 ports, which would be a waste of ports in my opinion, you would set it up this way:

#strings-> 8 (remember the # of strings is how many port connections you want to use for this model)
Nodes/String-> 122 (this is the number of pixels on each string that is connected to each port)
Strands/String->1 (this is the number of times that each string connected to one port goes up and down)
Individual Start Channels-> NOT CHECKED
Start Channel-> #1:1 (xLights will make the adjustment and assign each string to a port autoMagically!)

Port->1 (you only need to select the starting port for your model, xLights will make the adjustment depending on the #strings you have entered)

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I also reconfigured the martixes to be one string but with 4 strands. So my 9 matrixes are consuming universes / ports 10 thru 20 with start channel picking up where previous ended... so my universes will start in odd places within matrixes 2 thru 9, but so be it.
You don't need to put them on separate ports, you could have left them on the 2 ports you were originally using.

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So I think where I went astray is believing that I could run multiple universes thru one port of the Falcon. I did this because I wanted to make the most of each of my 16. Or actually 15 as I shorted one out :-(
   
That is not correct, you CAN run several Universes on one port.
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xLights has a 510 (512 actually) channel limit to each port / universe.
That is not correct, a Universe is only a numbering method to identify each pixel. A universe is a protocol not created by xLights or Falcon but that protocol has a MAXIMUM number of channels of 512. The 510/512 limit is only for Universes, NOT ports, there is no correlation between them.
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But the product page for the Falcon says it supports "1024 pixels per output pixel controller." I'm still scratching my head on this. If falcon allows 1024 pixels per output (assuming output = port), how could I take advantage of this? 1024 pixels would equal 3,072 channels per port, right? I could light up my entire street with that, but as it stands getting only 510 (512) channels per port, I've run out of ports for the layout I was trying to create. Am I'm incorrect in my thinking here?
Yes, you are incorrect. Like I said, Universes do not equal port connections, there is no correlation there. Universes are just a numbering system that YOU determine the number of channels, you could make the Universes any size you want, they don't even need to be all the same size. But, all players in the game (you, xLights, FPP, controllers, etc.) need to know the universe number(s) and how many channels each Universe is. Most people use 510 or 512 for ease and is suggested until you totally understand how it works. But the F16 can control (not supply enough power though) to control 1024 pixels which is 6 universes (512 channels per Universe, but if you wanted to use 510 channels per Universe, then it will take 7 Universes to properly address all the pixels)

Offline JEBariffic

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2019, 04:05:15 PM »
Popo, I owe you a beer or 12. I believe I finally get it. I've got my tree back to one port (as its under 1024 total pixels), and split the matrixes into 2 ports (one port with 800 pixels, one with 1000). In testing, everything is running as expected.

So I see now I can chain together as many models into a port as I want (and of course wire those models together), as long as I don't exceed 1024 pixels (which Falcon admin wont let me do). Lovely. I see xLights displays the start and end channel for each universe, but I believe I can be blissfully unconcerned about that.

Its pretty simple, really. :-)


Many, many thanks to you all!!!

Offline Poporacer

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2019, 06:29:32 PM »
I am glad I was able to help! One thing to keep in mind is that if you are running that many pixels on one port, you will more than likely need to power inject. Test patterns might look OK but in real life you might have some issues.

Offline JEBariffic

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Re: Channels... Universes... Ports... ARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2019, 02:51:28 PM »
Yes will do!

 

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