Author Topic: ssc limits  (Read 3446 times)

Offline sirloinofbeef001

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ssc limits
« on: November 03, 2013, 08:13:47 AM »
This question has been asked by many ppl includung me. the reason has never been clear for me. The limits between the ssc and the first node with falcon firmware is 20' with ( x ) amount of nodes. What is x and if its not more footage of line with fewer nodes, then why? Im using 75 nodes on my mega tree and 35 nodes on my arches. Is it possible to push the limit higher with the arches, with only 35 nodes? My reason is that I want all my ssc's in a marine battery box by the mega tree. They will be separated by 30'... Is there an option for this if the 20' limit is a hard number? 
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Offline arw01

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 08:21:13 AM »
I understand you can use some Null nodes to repeat the signal and they won't light up. I won't have anything quite that far away, but that is mainly because I have no idea of what I need this year!

There has been a lot of talk about corrosion issues with the rj45 jacks and pigtails, so I have to figure out a method of keeping them upside down and out of the water completely in addition to worrying about distance.

The pixel net signal itself can run long distances before the ssc, so I have not understood either why the distance to the first node is so critical, perhaps partly because it's not twisted pair wire?  I wonder if replacing the wire from the first node back to the SSC might garner some distance if you used cat 5 there too.

Offline sirloinofbeef001

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 08:37:14 AM »
My thoughts are because of the power drop. If I have a 120 node string, its over 30' long with nodes, I have my arches with only 35 nodes @ 10' why would there be such an issue with power drop over the 10'? Is there a loss of data between the ssc and the first node? or is it the power loss?. Has anyone tested this?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 08:49:59 AM by sirloinofbeef001 »

Offline David Pitts

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 09:52:22 AM »
My thoughts are because of the power drop. If I have a 120 node string, its over 30' long with nodes, I have my arches with only 35 nodes @ 10' why would there be such an issue with power drop over the 10'? Is there a loss of data between the ssc and the first node? or is it the power loss?. Has anyone tested this?

The limit on distance to the first node is mainly do to data corruption. On the first versions (1 and 2) the signal had alot of reflection. Version 3 mod helped with that. On the Falcon 16 and Falcon 8 controllers you are able to change the restance on the ouput circuit to match the length of cable and reduce the reflection.
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Offline JonB256

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 11:21:55 AM »
David, I think he's driving an SSC from a smart hub not a falcon16, so the data is RS485.

RS485 can go a long way, even at the higher rate that Pixelnet uses.

A 40ft run shouldn't be a problem UNLESS the SSC you are driving is fully loaded because the CAT5 will drop some voltage/power over the run. I think 35 pixels at 30 feet will be fine. 120 at 40 feet, not so much.

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Offline sirloinofbeef001

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 11:50:00 AM »
David, I think he's driving an SSC from a smart hub not a falcon16, so the data is RS485.

RS485 can go a long way, even at the higher rate that Pixelnet uses.

A 40ft run shouldn't be a problem UNLESS the SSC you are driving is fully loaded because the CAT5 will drop some voltage/power over the run. I think 35 pixels at 30 feet will be fine. 120 at 40 feet, not so much.

sent from my Galaxy Note
Jon,  I am using ssc's v3. I am going to put the falcon firmware on them. I don't like the pvc tube idea albeit im leaving them in the tubes for extra protection. I want to put 15 ssc's in the marine box and the other controllers in (pi, dongle and transmitter) in another. I asked this question on another site and , well, lets just say, it doesn't matter. I ask these questions because I don't have the answers.

Offline jnealand

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 01:23:52 PM »
Why not just buy another marine battery box and place it by your arches.  You can hide the SSCs inside it.  If someday you add more pixelnet stuff nearby you can add another power supply and a passive hub or do that now and you will only run one coax cable between the two battery boxes.  I will have an F-16 with a power supply by my arches.  Only going to use 4 ports for now, but I have plenty of expansion to add other stuff nearby in the future.  Of course if David completes the F-8 soon enough I can put one of those by my arches instead of the F-16
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Offline MyKroFt

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 01:36:04 PM »
Im pushing him on the F8, I think he just needs to finish firmware

I want another 1 or 2 F16 - but am going to wait until after christmas when the next version comes out with the daugherboard option for active pixelnet output - i am going to assume the same daughterboard will work on the F8 and F16 - I have not asked David about that yet

Tony

Offline sirloinofbeef001

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 01:44:13 PM »
Another marine box is an option. All I wanted to know is what is the distance between the ssc and the first node? I'm trying to play catch-up. I don't know all the boundaries and Limits. This is just a possible solution.

Offline David Pitts

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 02:03:29 PM »
Another marine box is an option. All I wanted to know is what is the distance between the ssc and the first node? I'm trying to play catch-up. I don't know all the boundaries and Limits. This is just a possible solution.

The Falcon16 has been tested at up to 30 feet. I would say for SSC3 I would not make it more then 10 feet. I hear SSC4 and Zeus must be pretty close to first node but not sure. Maybe rdebolt has more knowledge in this area.

Offline rdebolt

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 08:46:53 PM »
I have not tested the Zeus distance, but I would think that it will be similar to the SSC V4. During testing of the V4 I was able to drive regular nodes with 122 node string with a 6 ft lead (SSC to first node). At 10 feet I started losing control of the end nodes. So I would say that the SSC V4 would work ok on regular nodes up to around 8 feet. Now with flex strips I had different results. I was able to go 15 feet without any issues on a 120 node string. At 20 feet I did run into issues. So there again I would say somewhere between 15 to 16 feet would be the limit with flex strips. I did not test distance on any other nodes.


I have done no distance testing with Davids firmware on the V3s.

Offline sirloinofbeef001

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 07:01:42 AM »
I'll leave it for another day. Thanks guys
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 08:07:54 AM by sirloinofbeef001 »

Offline zwiller

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 08:36:32 AM »
Yep, data loss.  That's why null node programming exists.  I think you will need a SSCv4 to even consider going over 4-6' feet.  While I think there are probably ways to achieve what you want I think they all would more of a PITA than doing it right. 

I am not sure I understand completely, but your goal is to eliminate the exposed SSCs of the arches?  I was going to suggest scaling back to 30 modes per arch and running a 4 port passive to center of the arches in battery box and inside run 2 SSCs left and right each feeding 2 arches (4 arches?)  I would even try and run power over the cat5.  A little modding to be done but is a single cat5 solution...  OR run a 12V line be "legal". 
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Offline sirloinofbeef001

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 09:29:29 AM »
Yep, data loss.  That's why null node programming exists.  I think you will need a SSCv4 to even consider going over 4-6' feet.  While I think there are probably ways to achieve what you want I think they all would more of a PITA than doing it right. 

I am not sure I understand completely, but your goal is to eliminate the exposed SSCs of the arches?  I was going to suggest scaling back to 30 modes per arch and running a 4 port passive to center of the arches in battery box and inside run 2 SSCs left and right each feeding 2 arches (4 arches?)  I would even try and run power over the cat5.  A little modding to be done but is a single cat5 solution...  OR run a 12V line be "legal".
thanks Z man.

Offline arw01

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Re: ssc limits
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 09:33:18 AM »
Yep, data loss.  That's why null node programming exists.  I think you will need a SSCv4 to even consider going over 4-6' feet.  While I think there are probably ways to achieve what you want I think they all would more of a PITA than doing it right. 

I am not sure I understand completely, but your goal is to eliminate the exposed SSCs of the arches?  I was going to suggest scaling back to 30 modes per arch and running a 4 port passive to center of the arches in battery box and inside run 2 SSCs left and right each feeding 2 arches (4 arches?)  I would even try and run power over the cat5.  A little modding to be done but is a single cat5 solution...  OR run a 12V line be "legal".

Hmm, that might be worth a try.  put pigtails on the ends of the strings, hook them all back to back to back and with 30 nodes per, that only gets to 120 on the whole set of arches.    Now if my little brain can get around the programming, I think you would just program each arch with it's start channel and the one SSC would care less, correct?

This little tidbit might save me quite a bit of cable and hassle!

I think for protecting the ssc, I was going to either ziptie it to the arch itself, or put a little 18" rebar about 7" into the sod and attach it to that with a ziptie.  Since I followed some wise wisdom and put both pigtails out one end, as long as those are upside down, I will never have any water entry issues.

 

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