Author Topic: P10  (Read 11510 times)

Offline uzelessknowledge

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Re: P10
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2016, 06:40:10 PM »

Yes, it is a single 30amp Ray Wu supply. I do not run Full White and have the model set at 70% intensity.
Wow. I'm impressed. Rethinking this now. I mean the P10's are sweet, but all in costly. Maybe the weather resistant ones will be good. Them only have to weather proof the back. I just can't imaging putting the money into them.
What to do. What to do.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: P10
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2016, 08:50:42 PM »

Yes, it is a single 30amp Ray Wu supply. I do not run Full White and have the model set at 70% intensity.
Wow. I'm impressed. Rethinking this now. I mean the P10's are sweet, but all in costly. Maybe the weather resistant ones will be good. Them only have to weather proof the back. I just can't imaging putting the money into them.
What to do. What to do.

I'm just straight out disappointed that again whilst it can be done the experienced hands are promoting very poor practice...... for the sake of $30 and a bit of extra wiring it's suddenly ok to promote the potential overloading of a cheap PSU.

BEST practice is calculate or better measure for full 100% white and load the supply to 80%... pushing to 90% if you really need to.

I wish people who already spend 1000's of dollars on their display wouldn't try and save to last $20/30 on a single psu

Offline Aesl1982

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Re: P10
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2016, 08:56:01 PM »


Yes, it is a single 30amp Ray Wu supply. I do not run Full White and have the model set at 70% intensity.
Wow. I'm impressed. Rethinking this now. I mean the P10's are sweet, but all in costly. Maybe the weather resistant ones will be good. Them only have to weather proof the back. I just can't imaging putting the money into them.
What to do. What to do.
ive read the fpp doesn't work with the "outdoor" panels


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Offline AussiePhil

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Re: P10
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2016, 10:48:39 PM »

ive read the fpp doesn't work with the "outdoor" panels

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct, as the "outdoor" panels are 1/2 scan rather than 1/8 scan

Also they are called "outdoor" due to the higher brightness not because they are weatherproof, they still require all the same cabinet structure for weatherproofing

Offline JonB256

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Re: P10
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2016, 04:49:27 AM »
Phil, I have measured my power several ways and am at the 80% safety margin. These pixels do not draw nearly the amount of amperage that their spec sheets state.

Offline gadgetsmith

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Re: P10
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2016, 09:10:43 AM »

Yes, it is a single 30amp Ray Wu supply. I do not run Full White and have the model set at 70% intensity.
Wow. I'm impressed. Rethinking this now. I mean the P10's are sweet, but all in costly. Maybe the weather resistant ones will be good. Them only have to weather proof the back. I just can't imaging putting the money into them.
What to do. What to do.

I'm just straight out disappointed that again whilst it can be done the experienced hands are promoting very poor practice...... for the sake of $30 and a bit of extra wiring it's suddenly ok to promote the potential overloading of a cheap PSU.

BEST practice is calculate or better measure for full 100% white and load the supply to 80%... pushing to 90% if you really need to.

I wish people who already spend 1000's of dollars on their display wouldn't try and save to last $20/30 on a single psu

I think the point is; most people don't test or measure.  They add another power supply and have no idea how much margin they have on their PSU's.  That, in my book, is the disappointment.  No one here is saying use only one PSU.  We are sharing our experiences, and if Aesl is going to go thru with making a P10 matrix (or pixel matrix) that is 15ft x 7ft, he has plenty to think about when it comes to how he's going to run and power that size matrix.  Certainly throwing in another $20 PSU to have piece of mind is a good idea, but blindly doing it is another thing.

Example:  I've read lots of posts where users plan to put 100 pixels on each of the 16 outputs of an F16v2.  I've seen many people automatically put two 350W power supplies on that.  My best guess is that using only one power supply, they are likely at about 70-75% current load at full white.  Is having two power supplies really a benefit in a case like this?  Thermal considerations may also outweigh the % current draw on a power supply as well.  Being from AUS i'm sure you're well aware of that.  These are things we need to make newcomers aware of;  the 'why' of why we do things.

I run my 2x2 (~ 2ft x 1ft) P10 matrix at 40% brightness as it gets hard to read 60 ft away due to it being so bright.  JonB only runs his 4ft x 8ft pixel matrix at 70% brightness.  This will be useful information as Aesl moves forward with this build.  I look forward to see what he decides to do.

Offline gadgetsmith

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Re: P10
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2016, 09:15:03 AM »

ive read the fpp doesn't work with the "outdoor" panels

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct, as the "outdoor" panels are 1/2 scan rather than 1/8 scan

Also they are called "outdoor" due to the higher brightness not because they are weatherproof, they still require all the same cabinet structure for weatherproofing

P10 'outdoor' is mostly 1/4 scan from what i've seen.

Chris looked into supporting P10 1/4 scan and P6 1/16 scan panels (both use the HUB 75 connector) at one point last year, did that not work out?  Might need to dig out that thread to satisfy my own curiosity...

Offline gadgetsmith

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Re: P10
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2016, 09:55:04 AM »

P10 'outdoor' is mostly 1/4 scan from what i've seen.

Chris looked into supporting P10 1/4 scan and P6 1/16 scan panels (both use the HUB 75 connector) at one point last year, did that not work out?  Might need to dig out that thread to satisfy my own curiosity...

To answer myself.  I see both 1/2 and 1/4 scan outdoor P10's are available.

I also saw where Chris mentions that only 1/8 P10 will be supported for the foreseeable future.

Offline CaptainMurdoch

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Re: P10
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2016, 11:40:33 AM »
To answer myself.  I see both 1/2 and 1/4 scan outdoor P10's are available.

I also saw where Chris mentions that only 1/8 P10 will be supported for the foreseeable future.

Supporting 1/2 or 1/4 would require changes in the PRU code that drives the panels and the FPP C++ code to change the layout of the data being sent to the PRU.   I have done a little more research on these and think that in a single refresh these 32x16 panels take 2x as much data or 4x as much data per data line.  The 1/8 scan panels use 3 address lines and refresh 2 lines at a time, sending 16 pixels worth of data in each refresh.  I believe that the 1/4 scan panels use 2 address lines and refresh 4 lines at a time, sending 32 pixels worth of data in each refresh.  If someone has access to some of these and can run some tests, then we could look at support for them in FPP.
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Chris

Offline pixelpuppy

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Re: P10
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2016, 12:16:58 PM »
To answer myself.  I see both 1/2 and 1/4 scan outdoor P10's are available.

I also saw where Chris mentions that only 1/8 P10 will be supported for the foreseeable future.

Supporting 1/2 or 1/4 would require changes in the PRU code that drives the panels and the FPP C++ code to change the layout of the data being sent to the PRU.   I have done a little more research on these and think that in a single refresh these 32x16 panels take 2x as much data or 4x as much data per data line.  The 1/8 scan panels use 3 address lines and refresh 2 lines at a time, sending 16 pixels worth of data in each refresh.  I believe that the 1/4 scan panels use 2 address lines and refresh 4 lines at a time, sending 32 pixels worth of data in each refresh.  If someone has access to some of these and can run some tests, then we could look at support for them in FPP.
DIYLEDEXPRESS is selling the "outdoor" P10 panels. He doesn't list the scan specs.
http://www.diyledexpress.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=456

Am I reading here that these will not work with FPP?  He is selling individual panels as well as a full kit with BBB, Scroller, power  supply and cables.  I almost bought the full kit, but changed my order to just one outdoor panel for experimentation.  Now I wonder if I just bought a paperweight..

-Mark

Offline CaptainMurdoch

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Re: P10
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2016, 01:57:10 PM »
DIYLEDEXPRESS is selling the "outdoor" P10 panels. He doesn't list the scan specs.
http://www.diyledexpress.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=456

Am I reading here that these will not work with FPP?  He is selling individual panels as well as a full kit with BBB, Scroller, power  supply and cables.  I almost bought the full kit, but changed my order to just one outdoor panel for experimentation.  Now I wonder if I just bought a paperweight..

I am not sure.  I would hope that he had tested one of his kits, but since the full specs aren't available I don't know the specs on these outdoor panels.

I thought I saw someone ask him about these panels and the response was that the only difference was that the outdoor ones were waterproof, but I do not know if he has personally tested them with FPP to make sure the outdoor panels work.

Offline pixelpuppy

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Re: P10
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2016, 02:34:53 PM »
I thought I saw someone ask him about these panels and the response was that the only difference was that the outdoor ones were waterproof, but I do not know if he has personally tested them with FPP to make sure the outdoor panels work.
I saw that too.  But I don't think they specifically asked about scan specs so he *may* have overlooked that.  Its still pre-sale right now and I don't think they've built up any of the full kits yet.  I'm also a bit fuzzy on the scroller he's offering.  I don't think its the original "octoscroller" but rather one of the other clones that have been popping up.  Since there isn't much to the scroller I wasn't too worried about that.  But this recent talk about scan differences between indoor and outdoor really has me wondering about compatibility.

What does all this scan stuff mean anyways?  Is it a reference to scan rate?  What's the difference between a panel with 1/8 scan and one with 1/4 scan?

Offline CaptainMurdoch

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Re: P10
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2016, 03:35:07 PM »
I thought I saw someone ask him about these panels and the response was that the only difference was that the outdoor ones were waterproof, but I do not know if he has personally tested them with FPP to make sure the outdoor panels work.
I saw that too.  But I don't think they specifically asked about scan specs so he *may* have overlooked that.  Its still pre-sale right now and I don't think they've built up any of the full kits yet.  I'm also a bit fuzzy on the scroller he's offering.  I don't think its the original "octoscroller" but rather one of the other clones that have been popping up.  Since there isn't much to the scroller I wasn't too worried about that.  But this recent talk about scan differences between indoor and outdoor really has me wondering about compatibility.

What does all this scan stuff mean anyways?  Is it a reference to scan rate?  What's the difference between a panel with 1/8 scan and one with 1/4 scan?

The scan rate is what portion of the rows are being refreshed at any given point in time.  The normal 32x16 panels are 1/8 scan which means that 1/8 of the rows (16 * 1/8 = 2) are being refreshed at any given point in time.  The 1/4 scan panels update 1/4 of the rows at the same time.  Since these 1/4 panels are also 16 rows high, that means they update 4 rows at the same time, but they still have the same HUB75 interface as far as I can tell.  That means they must be sending 64 pixels worth of data out each data line instead of 32.  The HUB75 interface only has 2 sets of RGB data outputs.   It looks like each data signal is actually connected to more than one physical line of LED's.  So, the first data line with 64 pixels worth of data could be feeding rows 1 and 5 while the other data line is feeding rows 9 and 13.  Then the address lines change and data1 is feeding rows 2 and 6 and data2 is feeding 10 and 14, etc..

I believe I have seen posts saying that the scroller is "their version of the octoscroller", so they may have taken the schematic and board files and changed the silk screening or layout slightly.  There aren't any pictures on the site I believe.  I know it's a presale, but most vendors sample items before offering them up for sale to thousands of customers, that is why I said I would hope that he tested one of his kits before putting together a kit of BBB, *scroller, and P10 panels, especially since P10 is just the size, it doesn't specify that the panel uses the HUB75 interface or 1/8 scan.

Offline AussiePhil

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Re: P10
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2016, 04:08:12 PM »
@ Jon and Gadget,

I'm not saying do it blindly or without measuring, I'm among the measure your pixel strings to see what they actually draw, I mapped out the current draw for P10's based on different brightness levels.

Maybe I misinterpreted uselessknowledge's reply but I stand by my statement it's poor practice to calculate current draw requirements based on a % brightness number that you use, but for all means show how it can be managed.

For two years I ran my entire show at 60% master brightness then swapped software back to Vixen that had no control and was forced back to 100%, glad I allowed for 100% in the first place.

@Everyone.... has anyone got a "outdoor" panel and can confirm if there is any weatherproofing? All the photo's would indicate zero weatherproofing and it's just the brightness level that is greater to allow them to be used in full sunlight.


Offline uzelessknowledge

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Re: P10
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2016, 04:14:05 PM »

@ Jon and Gadget,

I'm not saying do it blindly or without measuring, I'm among the measure your pixel strings to see what they actually draw, I mapped out the current draw for P10's based on different brightness levels.

Maybe I misinterpreted uselessknowledge's reply but I stand by my statement it's poor practice to calculate current draw requirements based on a % brightness number that you use, but for all means show how it can be managed.

For two years I ran my entire show at 60% master brightness then swapped software back to Vixen that had no control and was forced back to 100%, glad I allowed for 100% in the first place.

@Everyone.... has anyone got a "outdoor" panel and can confirm if there is any weatherproofing? All the photo's would indicate zero weatherproofing and it's just the brightness level that is greater to allow them to be used in full sunlight.
Hey Phil. I was not referring to p10's as Jon said he ran 1200 pixels from a f16v2.

 

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