Author Topic: 5mm LED Pixels  (Read 1214 times)

Offline CarterM

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5mm LED Pixels
« on: January 10, 2018, 07:20:36 AM »
My wife and I have different ideas about what looks good for a display.  I don't care what it looks like during the day... she does!  So we all know where that gets us :)


She likes a lot of the static display elements, and love the accents I'll do with pixels - but doesn't want to see coro or wires if we can help it.  In that spirit, I've been looking for ways to compromise - namely, how can I retrofit these static display elements with pixels so it's not just an A/C controlled prop?


After tear-down I started digging on how small of a pixel I can get.  I'd love to put the 'fairy lights' out in a lot of places, but those are a different beast.  I then stumbled on some 5mm LED's that actually have the IC built into the LED light itself!  I've got a few on the way now to experiment with, but after talking to Ray he magically has the same listing I bought from someone else on his site now:


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Flat-hat-WS2812D-5mm-RGB-WS2811-LEDs-RGB-full-color-with-WS2811-IC-built-in/701799_32696884482.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.6f930e7aWenBjs


You can get these in the 'flat top' as well as the frosted/rounded.


My question - has anyone else ventured down this path already?  I'm not sure how new these are.  It just blows me away that they can get the IC in the actual LED...


My vision is to retrofit props that use standard 5mm LED's with these.  I'll have to waterproof them and such, but I have ideas on how to get that done.  At $0.10-0.12/ea, it'll be a fun, inexpensive project.  Or so I think...

Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 08:31:15 AM »
My wife and I have different ideas about what looks good for a display.  I don't care what it looks like during the day... she does!  So we all know where that gets us :)


She likes a lot of the static display elements, and love the accents I'll do with pixels - but doesn't want to see coro or wires if we can help it.  In that spirit, I've been looking for ways to compromise - namely, how can I retrofit these static display elements with pixels so it's not just an A/C controlled prop?


After tear-down I started digging on how small of a pixel I can get.  I'd love to put the 'fairy lights' out in a lot of places, but those are a different beast.  I then stumbled on some 5mm LED's that actually have the IC built into the LED light itself!  I've got a few on the way now to experiment with, but after talking to Ray he magically has the same listing I bought from someone else on his site now:


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Flat-hat-WS2812D-5mm-RGB-WS2811-LEDs-RGB-full-color-with-WS2811-IC-built-in/701799_32696884482.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.6f930e7aWenBjs


You can get these in the 'flat top' as well as the frosted/rounded.


My question - has anyone else ventured down this path already?  I'm not sure how new these are.  It just blows me away that they can get the IC in the actual LED...


My vision is to retrofit props that use standard 5mm LED's with these.  I'll have to waterproof them and such, but I have ideas on how to get that done.  At $0.10-0.12/ea, it'll be a fun, inexpensive project.  Or so I think...

Yeah, I spent a lot of time playing with these last.  Both the APA and the PL versions.

Offline CarterM

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 08:34:23 AM »
Any issues?  Do they work just as well as 'normal' pixels?

Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 08:51:54 AM »
Any issues?  Do they work just as well as 'normal' pixels?

Yes and no. I ordered small batches from several different vendors. One version popped/smoked every time I applied power (I went through 10).  Im curious which model you ordered.

The others did work fine.  You may need to consider a capacitor, as these dont have ones built-in (like all the normal strips/bullets were accustomed to).

I did have some weird issues with daisy-chaining the data. For the most part, it works.  But in one configuration (critical, for my application), it simply didnt work (for reasons I still cant comprehend).

I still have inventory that Im sitting in, and have some ideas that Im working on for next year, to use these again.

Offline CarterM

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 09:08:13 AM »
I got 100 of these:


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Flat-hat-WS2812D-led-chip-5mm-RGB-WS2811-LEDs-DIP-F5mm-RGB-full-color-with-WS2811/32845540147.html


and 100 of these:


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-1000pcs-DC5V-Diffused-round-hat-RGB-LED-with-WS2811-chipset-inside-5mm-F5-8mm-F8/32713415299.html


I also don't mind building a small box/device in the prop to handle small design issues - I'm going to build out a test setup on my breadboard and use an ESPixelStick initially...maybe my RaPi/Adrino... my hope is they don't require a lot of extra work.  Ray also has these:


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100pcs-string-addressable-PL9823-F5-led-string-DC5V-input-3cm-wire-spacing-with-all-black-wire/701799_32651932855.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.264c9f03nHUhZM


While I don't care about the wire, they might present a next-best-solution if this one doesn't pan out for me.




Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 10:46:22 AM »
Interesting WS2812D.  Those aren't the types I've used, but are probably the same thing.  Do you have the pin-out?

Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 10:54:41 AM »
Interesting WS2812D.  Those aren't the types I've used, but are probably the same thing.  Do you have the pin-out?


It looks those might actually be the APA106 or PL??? (which I've used more, but can't remember the model#), just labeled as "WS2812D".

Offline CarterM

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 11:16:45 AM »
I'm actually not 100% sure.


This vendor lists 3 types - PL9823, APA106 and WS2811 and you can pick which one you want (and size/qty of course).


https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC5V-Diffused-round-hat-RGB-LED-with-WS2811-PL9823-APA106-chipset-inside-5mm-8mm-Neo-pixel/32825363423.html


Pin-outs and diagrams are on that page - they all seem to have the same pin-out, and all claim compatibility with WS2811 protocol (just like the 1903 which works off of a Falcon just fine with WS2811 selected).


I'm not an expert, but an experimenter in this one :)

Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 11:40:20 AM »
Yes, I played with various versions of PL9823 and APA106 from different vendor (Ebay, Amazon).  I was just experimenting as well

Offline CarterM

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 05:29:24 AM »
Well, I now have samples coming from at least 3 vendors.  This aught to be fun...


I'll reply back once I have some more info and hopefully some functioning LEDs...

Offline corey872

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 10:40:23 AM »
Kind of neat to see an idea come full circle!  http://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php/topic,681.msg5210.html#msg5210

What would be really nice now is to have these LEDs with a 'socket' type arrangement.  A slight modification of the 'standard' miniature light wiring / socket and a plug adapter on the LED would make changing or replacing bad nodes trivial.

On the data transmission, typically the controller chips have suggested a low value (33 ohm IIRC) series resistor on the data out and data in lines.  This is supposed to help impedance matching between the lines and allows for the standard ~15ft inter-node data transmission distance.   If the 'weird issues daisy chaining' seem to be associated with longer distances between nodes, it could be that they left those resistors out to save a few cents.
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Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 11:00:29 AM »
Kind of neat to see an idea come full circle!  http://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php/topic,681.msg5210.html#msg5210

What would be really nice now is to have these LEDs with a 'socket' type arrangement.  A slight modification of the 'standard' miniature light wiring / socket and a plug adapter on the LED would make changing or replacing bad nodes trivial.

On the data transmission, typically the controller chips have suggested a low value (33 ohm IIRC) series resistor on the data out and data in lines.  This is supposed to help impedance matching between the lines and allows for the standard ~15ft inter-node data transmission distance.   If the 'weird issues daisy chaining' seem to be associated with longer distances between nodes, it could be that they left those resistors out to save a few cents.

Ah yes, the missing resister certainly could have been my problem.

The they that left those out, was ME.  I simply didnt know that there should have been a resister used hereand Ive not had much luck in finding any sort of user-group for how to implement these LEDs!

Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 11:04:49 AM »
What would be really nice now is to have these LEDs with a 'socket' type arrangement.  A slight modification of the 'standard' miniature light wiring / socket and a plug adapter on the LED would make changing or replacing bad nodes trivial.


And I would CERTAINLY be interested in finding some "socket" type arrangement, or some type of wiring-harness that can be used for these.


I know I could roll my own, but not in an efficient (and solid) method that I would need to process the volume I'm looking into.

Offline CarterM

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 11:38:24 AM »
Kind of neat to see an idea come full circle!  http://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php/topic,681.msg5210.html#msg5210

What would be really nice now is to have these LEDs with a 'socket' type arrangement.  A slight modification of the 'standard' miniature light wiring / socket and a plug adapter on the LED would make changing or replacing bad nodes trivial.

On the data transmission, typically the controller chips have suggested a low value (33 ohm IIRC) series resistor on the data out and data in lines.  This is supposed to help impedance matching between the lines and allows for the standard ~15ft inter-node data transmission distance.   If the 'weird issues daisy chaining' seem to be associated with longer distances between nodes, it could be that they left those resistors out to save a few cents.


So Ray sells these as well:





I'm going to get a couple of samples from him, and I'm curious what the boards have on them in these examples.  Perhaps they are just a couple of resistors mounted.


Either way, this is a step towards your idea of a socket.  It would be wonderful to have something as mundane as the current mini-light sockets... and if a pixel burns out, just replace it.  You might even be able to waterproof the connector.


Offline Bwinter

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Re: 5mm LED Pixels
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 11:48:53 AM »
I've seen those as well.  Not really what I'm looking for, and doesn't look even remotely water-resistant.  And in that configuration (pointing opposite direction), I can't really think of an application I would use them for.


I'll be curious to see what others come up with, but based on what I was wanting to use them form--at the end, I really couldn't justify using these over just using a normal strip.  Especially given the amount of time that it would take to get a bunch of these into any working model.

 

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