News:

Server migration complete, Welcome to version 2.1.1

+-+-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Site Stats

Members
Total Members: 16481
Latest: Dronyx_belgium
New This Month: 13
New This Week: 1
New Today: 1
Stats
Total Posts: 132763
Total Topics: 16481
Most Online Today: 111
Most Online Ever: 7634
(January 21, 2020, 02:14:03 AM)
Users Online
Members: 0
Guests: 65
Total: 65

Failing Pixels

Started by Jack S, December 18, 2023, 09:58:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bwinter

Quote from: k6ccc on December 22, 2023, 05:42:55 PMI do not like the heat shrink solder tubes you linked as there no mechanical connection.  The only thing holding it together is a solder connection that may well be crappy due to not enough heat.  MAYBE for an emergency repair, but certainly not anything permanent.

I've been using the heat-shrink w embedded solder for years and never had any problem.  I've tested the physical "strength" of these connections, and they're surprisingly strong.  Of course, I wouldn't use it for bungee-jumping or any NASA-related applications—but they seem more than adequate for this hobby.

k6ccc

If you ever go to any soldering school, about the first thing you learn is that you should NEVER depend on the soldered connection for any mechanical strength, and you should NEVER depend on the solder to carry the current - the two wires MUST be making a solid contact.  In other words, laying the two wires next to each other and covering them with a blob of solder is a fail.  The next thing is that you have to get the wires hot enough to melt the solder - NOT melt the solder over cold wires.  Damn near guarantee that with the heat shrink solder tubes that the wires are hardly getting warm before the blob of solder oozes over them.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

k6ccc

Quote from: JonD on December 23, 2023, 05:27:56 AMTypically UR style connectors A.K.A. beans, jellybeans, fish-eyes, scotchlocks, are a no no for data lines.

Correct - for high speed data.  Even the fastest pixel data is under 1mb/s - which is still pretty slow.  I would not use jelly beans on a Gigabit Ethernet, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

Bwinter

Quote from: k6ccc on December 23, 2023, 11:26:55 AMIf you ever go to any soldering school, about the first thing you learn is that you should NEVER depend on the soldered connection for any mechanical strength, and you should NEVER depend on the solder to carry the current - the two wires MUST be making a solid contact.  In other words, laying the two wires next to each other and covering them with a blob of solder is a fail.  The next thing is that you have to get the wires hot enough to melt the solder - NOT melt the solder over cold wires.  Damn near guarantee that with the heat shrink solder tubes that the wires are hardly getting warm before the blob of solder oozes over them.
For industrial/professional applications, of course you're correct.

However since this is just a 5V/12V hobby, I also consider what's reasonable and practical.  And given ALL the other points-of-failure that exist (for some people on a weekly basis), I really don't hear too many failures due to these connections (especially when done properly).

Also, if you're relying on ANY of these LED strands for mechanical support, you're already going to have bigger  problems (solder/shrink spliced or not).

k6ccc

Quote from: LedMutt on December 23, 2023, 04:26:52 AMThe funny thing is its never the one at ground level...
Ain't that the truth!  Right now I have a dozen or so pixels on my 26 x 100 pixel tree that are in trouble (mostly one color missing).  I can reach about the bottom 25 or so pixels on each string while standing on the ground.  Yep, you guessed it, EVERY bad pixel is well above reach.  The annoying part is that due to a recent knee replacement, I am banned from climbing ladders this year.  So, they are just getting left.  Most people in the audience will never notice it, but it annoys me....  I am planning on a total rebuild of the tree next year which will include new pixels.  Hopefully the new pixels will be higher reliability than these (bought 3 years ago and LOTS of people have reported very high failure rates on pixels from all sources at that time).

Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

TheMinionHouse

I am having issues with ones I got from RGBMan last year, 2022,  they worked great last season, but this season I have replaced 10 whole strands and over 300 pixels aside from the strands, out of 6k pixels. I have to replace at least 6 more tonight before my show starts. All with failing/cracking epoxy.  I reached to him but he has ghosted me. 
I bought from him because my 2020 Ray Wu pixels caught fire in 2021.  Ray refunded me, but I didn't have trust.  Now I don't trust RGB Man.  My 2019 Ray Wu pixels are still going strong, have not replaced a single one in 5 years and still using them today. 
I guess I am going to go back to Ray Wu for my next batch. 
I use Hot Glue lined Heat Shrink for all my connections. 
I tried the Matos Design crimp but out of the 40 I used last year, I had pulled all of them because they failed to maintain/make contact with the wires and work.  Nice looking design, poor implementation of the contacts, in all cases I pulled apart the contacts either split or bent over. 
I am using the heat shrink quick solder connections right now, I hate them, but I am so tired of pulling out my solder station and trying to go up 16ft on a ladder with it.  
I am pulling all my RGB man pixels after this season. 

JonD

Quote from: k6ccc on December 23, 2023, 11:54:36 AMEven the fastest pixel data is under 1mb/s - which is still pretty slow.
The data rule still applies to 1mb connections, it is just more forgiving than high speed is. 

Hand solder is still the best method, but it is also a pain in the rear.  There is only 4" between the lights in the first place, then cut that in half and try to get the wires to line up when gravity of the rest string is fighting you the entire time sucks.  The solder tubes are awesome, and I have had 300 or 400 out in my display for 3-4 years and not a single issue.  Until I start to see failures on the solder tube repairs, there is no way I would ever consider hand soldering them again.  

Your position on solder tubes vs beans is not as strong, but I respect your position.

JonD

I bought 12,000-14,000 from Ray Wu last year and have not have any issues so far.  I have the most failures on the mega-tree where the wind blows the strings back and forth all day.  Keeping them tight with bungee cords has helped.  I have learned the hard way, that it helps if you can keep your light strings from flopping around in the wind.  The constant swaying back and forth is very hard on them. 

jnealand

On the other hand I have two ~19 ft mega trees, 24 strands each, and have maybe one or two failures per year without pulling my strands super tight.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sLTcJNp7HKgWwXhp9
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA all Falcon controllers, all 12v Master Remote Multisync with Pi and BBB P10 and P5

JonD

With the bungees pulled tight, they still sway some on windy days, but not near that bad! :)  I had a lot of issues with my first tree that I just staked the straps into the ground.  I fixed them so often, I was almost happy the derecho snapped the tree in half!  The new one raises and lowers with a hand pulley, but I pull them as tight as I can with a bungee cord now.  Makes the show better to watch on windy days, and have not had to repair any strings last two seasons.  

k6ccc

My pixel tree has bullet pixels mounted into holes in PVC tubing.  The PVC is pulled tight with a turnbuckle at the bottom.  There is enough pull on the PVC that they don't move much - and we generally don't get much wind anyway.  All the strain is on the PVC and none on the pixel wires.



Yes, the strip was rotated for the photo.  Normally it would be front facing.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

JonD

#26
Quote from: k6ccc on December 24, 2023, 12:51:15 PMMy pixel tree has bullet pixels mounted into holes in PVC tubing.
That is a nice way of doing it.  I used to have issues with my stakes wanting to pull out of the ground.  It did not seem to matter how deep. or how many there were.  After a good rain that loosen the soil, then add high wind, the stakes started to give.  Once that happens, the straps are no longer tight, the wind starts to blow them more, and they pull out even more.  With the bungees pulled tight they still have a little to give, and then pull back tight.  I have not had any issues with the stakes trying to pull out of the ground since. 

k6ccc

Quote from: JonD on December 24, 2023, 01:39:13 PMThat is a nice way of doing it.
Thanks.
I have always built my pixel tree on a Unistrut frame.  You can't see it in the photo, but the two pieces of unistrut that sit on the ground are actually on a piece of wood or else the weight of the tree will cause the unistrut to sink into the ground.  This photo was the 2014 version.  When I rebuilt it to be 24 x 100 a few years later it became about two feet taller.  The lit portion of each string increased by just under a foot, and the whole thing was raised another foot.  The intent is to put some presents under the tree.  I have six presents, but have not added lights or sequenced them yet.  One of these days!



With the current version, it is heavy enough that I stand up the frame with only the star mounted.  The 26 strings are attached after the frame is stood up.  Same thing with the controller box which is behind the star and the power supplies box which is on a cross piece about 2/3 of the way up (not there in this 2014 version).
And although you can't see it in this photo, there is a piece of unistrut that connects to the frame behind the star to the eves to keep the whole thing vertical.  It's very solid.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

Bwinter

#28
Quote from: JonD on December 24, 2023, 09:44:31 AMHand solder is still the best method, but it is also a pain in the rear.  There is only 4" between the lights in the first place, then cut that in half and try to get the wires to line up when gravity of the rest string is fighting you the entire time sucks.  The solder tubes are awesome, and I have had 300 or 400 out in my display for 3-4 years and not a single issue.  Until I start to see failures on the solder tube repairs, there is no way I would ever consider hand soldering them again.

I think a few tweaks to this current type of common tool would make solder/shrink repairs INFINITELY easier (if not enjoyable):

https://www.amazon.com/Solder-Flameless-Detachable-Deflector-Electric/dp/B000BIBLWC/ref=asc_df_B000BIBLWC/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241999416883&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11402196912434150376&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024162&hvtargid=pla-611286531510&psc=1&mcid=9712ae7498d23a1e9cceb194a997ebdc&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7aSsBhCiARIsALFvovy5E_03CgiBc7PDLIUfH4v1NZapkqTzZph5p5kXIpufGTPJ40n_9K8aAnosEALw_wcB

I'd like to see the heat shield tweaked:

Add two clamps on either side of this heat-shield to secure the wires
A bit of insulation on the back side of the shield, to prevent contact with the other wires behind.

If anyone has the capability of creating something like this, I'd DEFINITELY be interested.

Support FPP

+- Recent Topics

Changing FPP firmware by dkulp
July 19, 2024, 06:20:26 PM

Intro to the Octoscroller by dkulp
July 19, 2024, 04:41:13 AM

xCapture Playback Issues by dkulp
July 19, 2024, 04:38:54 AM

UDP error by Poporacer
July 17, 2024, 07:19:13 PM

do I need license for my picap New? by Poporacer
July 15, 2024, 03:35:02 PM

Audio Issue with Pi Zero 2 W by robbiet
July 14, 2024, 12:07:12 PM

USB (and other) issues on Pi Zero 2w by zaicik
July 14, 2024, 04:20:33 AM

Multiple text effects cause re-render by dkulp
July 13, 2024, 08:44:07 AM

FPP led Panel Troubleshooting. by Poporacer
July 12, 2024, 09:29:56 AM

output controller by JonD
July 12, 2024, 09:29:07 AM

Powered by EzPortal
Powered by SMFPacks Menu Editor Mod