Falcon Christmas

Falcon Player (FPP) => Falcon Player (FPP) => Topic started by: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PM

Title: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PM
NOTE: Multi-String WS281x Pi capes purchased through July 31, 2022 ARE eligible for a free grandfathered-in key voucher.  2-string capes are no eligible since they are not losing any functionality and will continue to function 100% in FPP v6 as they did in FPP v5.x and prior.

Some of you may be aware of a FaceBook post from early April regarding possible changes in the future of FPP.  The FPP development team has been working over the past month to get ourselves to a place where we could put clarity behind that post and announce details.  Wherever you see the word "Cape" below, you can substitute "Hat" if referring to a Raspberry Pi which calls expansion boards Hat.  We use Cape as a generic term.

This announcement is also posted at https://shop.falconplayer.com/key-announcement/ (https://shop.falconplayer.com/key-announcement/)

What is changing?

The upcoming release of FPP v6 will include a change to the existing BeagleBone/PocketBeagle Channel Output code used to control up to 48 strings of WS281X pixels directly attached to a Beagle.  FPP v6 will also add new Raspberry Pi Channel Output code for driving up to 24 strings of WS281X pixels directly attached to a Pi.  Starting with FPP v6, depending on where you purchase a Cape from, you may need to purchase a license key to activate the full functionality of these two FPP Channel Outputs when driving the pixel outputs on that Cape.  There will be 4 tiers of keys based on the number of ports covered. As port counts get higher, the price per port drops significantly.


Why is this changing?

FPP development is currently supported through a combination of donations and sales of FPP-compatible pixel capes including Kulp capes and the PiCap from PixelController.com.  The recent proliferation of Capes from 3rd party manufacturers/vendors who do not financially support the FPP team, threatens the future of the FPP project.  The development team wants to continue to be able to support the future development of FPP and keep it and other Channel Outputs fully Open Source and Free and the team uses the sales of FPP-compatible pixel "Controller" capes to help further this development.

All other FPP Channel Outputs are NOT affected by this announcement and will continue to function as-is in FPP v6.  This list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to the RPIWS281X output used to drive 2 strings of WS281X pixels on the Raspberry Pi, the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs, WS2801 outputs and spixels, DMX, E1.31, DDP, GPIO, Pixelnet, Renard, etc..

What do I need to do?


Where can I get more information?

Full details on these changes, pricing and FAQ (frequently asked questions) can be found at https://shop.falconplayer.com/faqcategories/ (https://shop.falconplayer.com/faqcategories/)

This announcement is being cross-posted on FaceBook, the FalconChristmas.com forum, and at https://shop.falconplayer.com/key-announcement/ (https://shop.falconplayer.com/key-announcement/)

FPP Development Team
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: AAH on May 20, 2022, 04:13:13 AM
I was wondering how the money brought in gets distributed. Does any money earned from now get distributed on a per commit basis, does it get distributed based on the historical number of commits, do the developers of DPI pixels, rgbcape48, octoscroller and everything else that fpp uses get a piece of the pie? Is djulien who brought DPI pixels to FPP and is 1 of the 44 developers on github get anything? David Pitts who started FPP in the first place and did all the initial work when it was a player only?
I held off commenting on the original thread as I hoped that this would die before it's public release.
Because I have been super busy I simply hoped rather than doing anything pro-active. I personally would rather have my users not have to pay anything directly to FPP but rather I would pay it and they just connect up and it would be good to go. In the case of the HE123 which uses the 48 output RGBCape library that would mean I either add $USD30 to the cost or I make the board for nothing as I make about $USD30 to make each of them.
I appreciate all the work done but potentially because I am a competitor to some of the Falcon and Kulp boards or maybe because I am an order of magnitude smaller than either of those or maybe because I am in Aussie and outside the circle of the US developers I have had mixed results when I have asked about features or information.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: rayhjr on May 20, 2022, 08:30:46 AM
Good Morning. I have read the FAQS and want to see if I'm understanding things correctly. I have numerous PB16 and BBB16 boards from Scott Hanson Open Source Project. If I only using 1 or 2 Capes, then I would only need the 1 or 2 licenses? Just for the Capes that I'm running and if I have a problem with a Cape itself, then I could swap the Cape and reassign the license to that Cape? In other words I don't need a license for all my Capes on hand, just the ones I'm running in my show and if I blow a gasket on a cape I could swap it, reassign the license and keep going?
 And are they considered a DIY cape eligible for a Free license? take picture of 2 capes with email  address, not all hump-teen dozen capes I have, assembled and bare boards?
I understand your reasoning behind all this and don't blame you at all for it. 
The part I like best in this hobby is building things, mainly Soldering together a board. I had a Falcon V2 I think, the Red Board, used it one season to run my Mega tree then sold it to purchase 2 SanDevices E682 kits for about the same money. Mainly so I could have more locations for Pixel outputs and so I could solder up the boards myself. I have since moved on to the current project, again so can solder up my on Boards. 
FPP is a wonderful thing and I'm glad it's there for all of us to use. Thanks for what you do!!
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 21, 2022, 02:41:24 AM
Quote from: AAH on May 20, 2022, 04:13:13 AMI was wondering.......
(quoted part cut short, but quoted to make sure this is linked to the right message)

Thanks for the questions.

We recently switched the donations button on the web site to go to the new entity that has been setup for the license fees.  David had been helping us distribute the donations (and dealing with all the taxes, etc.), but we all agreed it would be better to cut out the middleman so that we can more easily distribute the donations and any fees to the active contributors.  FPP isn't a royalty system, we won't be sending money to guys who helped out years ago and committed 5 lines of code to change a misspelled word and the the offset of a button on the screen.  Our intent is to use the money to help the active contributors on the development team, and that includes more than just the subset of us who commit code.  I don't want to single people out, but since you mentioned Don in particular, I would say Don is a great guy and has been a help in testing the new code, but he brought an idea and he publicly said it wasn't even his idea because he didn't want to claim credit when someone else came up with the idea 7 years ago.  I wrote the DPIPixels output based on reading the older docs he pointed us to and looking at his own implementation.  The actual logic for the DPI bit layout part of DPIPixels is probably 10-15 lines of code, the rest is all the parts that help to make that code integrate with FPP, none of which Don knew about, that is part of why I took on writing the new channel output.  We don't plan on distributing money by the # of commits people have or the Lines of Code people have committed.  If we did it that way, Dan and I would get 90% of the money.  Check out the contributor page in github if you want to see more details on that.  David isn't getting or wanting any of the money, he makes money off the PiCap.  We will be kicking something back to him for web site costs because FPP is most of the activity on the FalconChristmas.com forum site.

Look for a post in the vendor discussion area in the next day or so regarding bulk voucher purchases.  We think that is the best way for vendors to go as it will give a nice discount and make it a lot easier on your customers.  My goal is for the voucher redemption workflow to be as simple as going to a web page within FPP, entering the voucher code and a couple other pieces of information, hitting a button, and in 10-15 seconds you would have a signed EEPROM as long as the FPP instance could get to the internet at the time.  The workflow would have to be a little different if FPP couldn't talk to the signing API web site, but we want to make the process as simple as possible for the vendor and end user.

You mention competition.  Essentially, every cape vendor selling Beagle or Pi capes is a competitor to Dan's capes and David's PiCap.  I also get part of the PiCap sales because I wrote that original code and David and I worked in tandem with him creating the hardware and me creating the channel ouput, so I'm in that list also.  So technically, yes, you are a competitor, but we want to work with  you, not in opposition to you.  We continue to write, maintain, enhance the software which your capes use, how often do you see someone doing that for their competition?  We are not trying to cut 3rd party cape vendors out of the market, we could easily do that if we wanted by taking this channel output code that Dan and I wrote and locking it up so it could only be used with a cape from David or Dan, but we do not want to go that direction.  We are trying to make it easier for Cape Vendors to use the software, doing things such as providing a tool which you can  use to create EEPROMs or virtual EEPROMs for your capes and providing a dedicated area on the forum where we can discuss things such as EEPROM building with vendors to allow them to maximize the potential of their capes.  I just added a virtual EEPROM to the source repository for your rPi-28D yesterday and enhanced it tonight to all the user to optionally choose to output 4 strings of WS281x when using the new DPIPixels Channel Output driver by using the clock and data lines on your original WS2801 output.  Your rPi-28D isn't even affected by this announcement, but I went out of my way to create a virtual EEPROM for it that even displays your logo in the top right corner of FPP just like any other vendor's logo is displayed.  The new Cape Info page has links to your web site and your logo when a user is using this new virtual EEPROM.  We want to work with the vendors and are open to helping you along the way.  Today in our private development team chat room, we have actually been discussing how to get better support in xLights for 3rd party cape vendors to make it easier for users to get their configs from xLights onto FPP when using 3rd party capes.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 21, 2022, 02:48:36 AM
Quote from: rayhjr on May 20, 2022, 08:30:46 AMGood Morning. I have read the FAQS and want to see if I'm understanding things correctly.

Each cape will need it's own license to sign the EEPROM on the cape.  If you built some of Scott's Open Hardware boards, then you will get a free DIY voucher for each one of the ones you have built for your own use.  We aren't giving away DIY vouchers to someone who is building Scott's boards and then selling them to make a profit.

We do allow transferring a license key from one cape to another if one dies, we aren't going to try to squeeze you when your cape just got snowed on because you left the case open overnight. :)  This process will involve going to the new Cape Info page and re-signing the EEPROM using the same order number and license key used to sign the cape originally.  We are working on updating the documentation but are still making a few changes to the UI based on some feedback we have received so far after showing the interface to a group of people.

We fully support the DIY community.  DIY is why we have FPP and xLights today, because some of us who knew how to code decided to DIY instead of buying something commercial and off the shelf.  We want DIY users to be able to take full advantage of the software, that is why we are offering free vouchers for DIY capes.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
If I am reading this right my two Kulp K32A-B boards won't need a license,but my Rons Matrix cape running my Matrix will?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on May 22, 2022, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AMIf I am reading this right my two Kulp K32A-B boards won't need a license
Correct

Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AMbut my Rons Matrix cape running my Matrix will?
Incorrect, the only controllers that need a license are non Kulp/Falcon capes that are going to use the enhanced DPIPixel strings (for Pi based capes) or the BBBStrings48 strings (for BB based capes)

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PMThis list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to the RPIWS281X output used to drive 2 strings of WS281X pixels on the Raspberry Pi, the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs
In any case, if you already have a controller that falls under the licensing requirements, you will get the license for free anyways.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: Poporacer on May 22, 2022, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AMIf I am reading this right my two Kulp K32A-B boards won't need a license
Correct

Great
Quote from: Poporacer on May 22, 2022, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AMIf I am reading this right my two Kulp K32A-B boards won't need a license
Correct

Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AMbut my Rons Matrix cape running my Matrix will?
Incorrect, the only controllers that need a license are non Kulp/Falcon capes that are going to use the enhanced DPIPixel strings (for Pi based capes) or the BBBStrings48 strings (for BB based capes)

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PMThis list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to the RPIWS281X output used to drive 2 strings of WS281X pixels on the Raspberry Pi, the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs
In any case, if you already have a controller that falls under the licensing requirements, you will get the license for free anyways.

Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 10:58:02 AMbut my Rons Matrix cape running my Matrix will?
Incorrect, the only controllers that need a license are non Kulp/Falcon capes that are going to use the enhanced DPIPixel strings (for Pi based capes) or the BBBStrings48 strings (for BB based capes)

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PMThis list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to the RPIWS281X output used to drive 2 strings of WS281X pixels on the Raspberry Pi, the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs
In any case, if you already have a controller that falls under the licensing requirements, you will get the license for free anyways.

Excellent.Thanks for the info.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 02:23:17 PM
Just wanted to check my other capes and one is a Falcon and the other is a Hanson elctronics Octoscrolla. What about the Hanson Octoscrolla that runs my other Matrix?

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: sonic777 on May 22, 2022, 03:13:26 PM
I have a few questions on this subject. I have read everything I could find on this subject and just need a little direction.

With regards to what I believe falls into DIY but I'm not totally sure.  I have 5 San Devices (3xE682 + 2xE6804) boards which I'm currently re-soldering up to use the PB cape instead of the old propeller chip I soldered in the original pack. 
Does this mean they falls into the DIY category?

I also have two capes for BBB matrix screens that I'm unsure if I need to request licensing since I'm unclear if they are grandfathered in, these the P10 Scroller V1.2 boards from DIYLEDExpress.com.

I run a main player FPP RPi that syncs to all other FPP's and sends audio to my FM transmitter and speakers. No capes but it does send data to my Falcon v2 16 board w/16 extension, I'm unclear on this one since this is a standalone board and I need the audio from the FPP for the FM transmitter.  Do I request a voucher here too?

Last, I have multiple capes I purchased from Dan Kulp this year, but I didn't purchase the PB's or BBB's from him since those were not available at the time.  From what I was reading I'm just a bit fuzzy about those, should I just request a voucher for those capes to be sure I have everything I need?

I know these are unique to my situation but maybe these questions will help others too.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on May 22, 2022, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 02:23:17 PMWhat about the Hanson Octoscrolla that runs my other Matrix?
Did you read what I posted and highlighted in red right before you asked this?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 04:11:06 PM
.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Sawdust on May 22, 2022, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: Poporacer on May 22, 2022, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 02:23:17 PMWhat about the Hanson Octoscrolla that runs my other Matrix?
Did you read what I posted and highlighted in red right before you asked this?

Quote from: sonic777 on May 22, 2022, 03:13:26 PMI have a few questions on this subject....................

Poporacer, maybe highlight this one in FIRE RED. with YELLOW background

the only controllers that need a license are non Kulp/Falcon capes that are going to use the enhanced DPIPixel strings (for Pi based capes) or the BBBStrings48 strings (for BB based capes
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: sonic777 on May 22, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: Sawdust on May 22, 2022, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: Poporacer on May 22, 2022, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Kev7274 on May 22, 2022, 02:23:17 PMWhat about the Hanson Octoscrolla that runs my other Matrix?
Did you read what I posted and highlighted in red right before you asked this?

Quote from: sonic777 on May 22, 2022, 03:13:26 PMI have a few questions on this subject....................

Poporacer, maybe highlight this one in FIRE RED. with YELLOW background

the only controllers that need a license are non Kulp/Falcon capes that are going to use the enhanced DPIPixel strings (for Pi based capes) or the BBBStrings48 strings (for BB based capes
I don't think I was clear, these questions are posed with the expectation of using DPIPixel on all the controllers in each question.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: mrpburke on May 22, 2022, 09:25:28 PM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 21, 2022, 02:48:36 AM
Quote from: rayhjr on May 20, 2022, 08:30:46 AMGood Morning. I have read the FAQS and want to see if I'm understanding things correctly.

Each cape will need it's own license to sign the EEPROM on the cape.  If you built some of Scott's Open Hardware boards, then you will get a free DIY voucher for each one of the ones you have built for your own use.  We aren't giving away DIY vouchers to someone who is building Scott's boards and then selling them to make a profit.
We do allow transferring a license key from one cape to another if one dies, we aren't going to try to squeeze you when your cape just got snowed on because you left the case open overnight. :)  This process will involve going to the new Cape Info page and re-signing the EEPROM using the same order number and license key used to sign the cape originally.  We are working on updating the documentation but are still making a few changes to the UI based on some feedback we have received so far after showing the interface to a group of people.
We fully support the DIY community.  DIY is why we have FPP and xLights today, because some of us who knew how to code decided to DIY instead of buying something commercial and off the shelf.  We want DIY users to be able to take full advantage of the software, that is why we are offering free vouchers for DIY capes.

I saw who you are referring to here selling Scott's boards prebuilt for what seemed like for a profit and was wondering how that would be handled. I've only ordered parts for the SMD PB16v2 version and I know what I paid per board for all the parts so what he was charging seemed to be quite a bit more than just his cost.

How will the distinction be made between someone who is selling them for profit and someone who may just be selling extras that they built since when you order from JLCPCB they come in multiples of 5? I wont need all 5 that I'm building and I wouldnt mind giving one or 2 away at cost but I'd want to make sure that wouldnt get me classified as selling for profit. If that would I'll just keep all 5 and have some backups on hand in case they're ever needed.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 23, 2022, 12:21:35 AM
Quote from: mrpburke on May 22, 2022, 09:25:28 PMI saw who you are referring to here selling Scott's boards prebuilt for what seemed like for a profit and was wondering how that would be handled.

In order to be fair to the end user, we will grandfather-in the capes made by that person building Scott's designs as if they were bought from a real store, but once the deadline has passed, users purchasing capes from him would be required to purchase a license since they didn't build the cape themselves as a DIY project.

Quote from: mrpburke on May 22, 2022, 09:25:28 PMHow will the distinction be made between someone who is selling them for profit and someone who may just be selling extras that they built since when you order from JLCPCB they come in multiples of 5? I wont need all 5 that I'm building and I wouldnt mind giving one or 2 away at cost but I'd want to make sure that wouldnt get me classified as selling for profit. If that would I'll just keep all 5 and have some backups on hand in case they're ever needed.

If you have a few extra capes that you built and want to get rid of them, either because you have too many or you were able to build yours cheaper by buying more than quantity 1 or 2, that is not an issue.  You can request a DIY voucher for those and redeem it and then we can transfer the license if you ever sell one of those capes.  If we see the same person keeps coming to us saying they built more DIY capes and more and more, then that will definitely set off a red flag.  That and the fact that we are on the forum, on FaceBook, etc. and would probably see the person selling them anyway. :)  We're not going to red-flag you for selling a few of the boards you built.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Sawdust on May 23, 2022, 12:28:08 AM
Quote from: sonic777 on May 22, 2022, 03:13:26 PMI have a few questions on this subject. I have read everything I could find on this subject and just need a little direction.
QuoteThese have all been answered

With regards to what I believe falls into DIY but I'm not totally sure.  I have 5 San Devices (3xE682 + 2xE6804) boards which I'm currently re-soldering up to use the PB cape instead of the old propeller chip I soldered in the original pack. 
Does this mean they falls into the DIY category?
QuoteSan Devices are not capes, or using the enhanced DPIPixel strings - no license key required

I also have two capes for BBB matrix screens that I'm unsure if I need to request licensing since I'm unclear if they are grandfathered in, these the P10 Scroller V1.2 boards from DIYLEDExpress.com.
QuotePer Key Announcement: All other FPP Channel Outputs are NOT affected by this announcement and will continue to function as-is in FPP v6.  This list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to the RPIWS281X output used to drive 2 strings of WS281X pixels on the Raspberry Pi, the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs, WS2801 outputs and spixels, DMX, E1.31, DDP, GPIO, Pixelnet, Renard, etc..

I run a main player FPP RPi that syncs to all other FPP's and sends audio to my FM transmitter and speakers. No capes but it does send data to my Falcon v2 16 board w/16 extension, I'm unclear on this one since this is a standalone board and I need the audio from the FPP for the FM transmitter.  Do I request a voucher here too?
Quoteno capes, or using the enhanced DPIPixel strings - no license key required

Last, I have multiple capes I purchased from Dan Kulp this year, but I didn't purchase the PB's or BBB's from him since those were not available at the time.  From what I was reading I'm just a bit fuzzy about those, should I just request a voucher for those capes to be sure I have everything I need?
QuoteNo license key required Applies to cape, not BBB or Pi's
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: sonic777 on May 23, 2022, 07:23:04 PM
Thank you for your reply Sawdust, I don't usually ask too many questions unless I'm confused. :-[ I was confused, this helped a lot.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: mrpburke on May 24, 2022, 08:21:30 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 23, 2022, 12:21:35 AMIf you have a few extra capes that you built and want to get rid of them, either because you have too many or you were able to build yours cheaper by buying more than quantity 1 or 2, that is not an issue.  You can request a DIY voucher for those and redeem it and then we can transfer the license if you ever sell one of those capes.  If we see the same person keeps coming to us saying they built more DIY capes and more and more, then that will definitely set off a red flag.  That and the fact that we are on the forum, on FaceBook, etc. and would probably see the person selling them anyway. :)  We're not going to red-flag you for selling a few of the boards you built.




Thanks Chris. I just wanted to make sure that wouldn't be an issue.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: aclarksr on May 24, 2022, 11:53:31 AM
Will there be virtual licenses for Dan's early boards? I have original F32B, F8-PB, F40-PB and a couple F8-B pcb's all purchased from Dan when he was testing his designs. I don't believe any of these have eeprom's onboard. I think the F40-PB and one of the F8-PB's probably have them but not the originals. I think I helped Dan clean out a junk drawer when he was just developing the Pocket Beagle boards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: yo3ham on May 24, 2022, 12:49:25 PM
Please clarify the EEPROM issue.
I built my own DIY "cape" for the BBB, by soldering a buffer chip to the outputs of a BBB according to instructions from this forum, how to choose the pins by looking in the json files, i.e. I use 8 pins: P8-28,P8-27,P8-30 etc, and select a 8-output controller such "F8-B-16" in Falcon Player channel outputs.

Even if, of course, I don't have any real F8-B cape, but because the FPP on the BBB does not have the option "directly connect to pins P8-XXXX" like there is an option on the RPi FPP version - you MUST select one cape or another. But this is basically what I do - I connect directly to 8 pins of the BBB to have 8 channels (more than 50 pixels per channel).

To be very clear, what I built is a minimalistic board with only the buffer chips, no EEPROM (I don't even know what the EEPROM is for). 

Is this kind of DIY construction supported by the "DIY free license"? because I see no way to "sign the EEPROM" since there is no such thing.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 24, 2022, 01:05:14 PM
Quote from: aclarksr on May 24, 2022, 11:53:31 AMWill there be virtual licenses for Dan's early boards? I have original F32B, F8-PB, F40-PB and a couple F8-B pcb's all purchased from Dan when he was testing his designs. I don't believe any of these have eeprom's onboard. I think the F40-PB and one of the F8-PB's probably have them but not the originals. I think I helped Dan clean out a junk drawer when he was just developing the Pocket Beagle boards.

Dan created Virtual EEPROMs for his early boards and added them to FPP.  On both the Initial Setup page that pops up for new installs and the Pixel Strings config page, you will have the ability to install a Virtual EEPROM by selecting from a list of available EEPROMs.  The early F8-B, F8-Bv2, F32-B, F8-PB, and PocketScroller have virtual EEPROMs included with FPP.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 24, 2022, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: yo3ham on May 24, 2022, 12:49:25 PMIs this kind of DIY construction supported by the "DIY free license"? because I see no way to "sign the EEPROM" since there is no such thing.

Yes, it would be considered DIY.

In FPP v6, every string cape will require either a physical EEPROM or a virtual EEPROM.  FPP v6 will include virtual EEPROMs for all cape options which were previously listed on the Pixel Strings config page.  Virtual EEPROMs can be installed via the Initial Setup page or the Pixel Strings config page.  In your case, you would install the virtual EEPROM for whatever config you are currently using.  The Pixel Strings config UI will warn you if the virtual EEPROM needs to be signed to support more than 50 pixels.  You can also go to the Cape Info page to see if the EEPROM supports signing or not.  Some virtual EEPROMs do not need signing and some only need signing when they are used in a specific configuration.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: rayhjr on May 26, 2022, 08:56:01 PM
Questions, One cape photo per key request? or can I do a group photo of capes in one photo? With my email address.
In requesting Keys for Scott's BBB or PB capes do I need Receipt of purchase from Cape Manufacturer (JLCPCB)?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 26, 2022, 09:28:24 PM
Quote from: rayhjr on May 26, 2022, 08:56:01 PMQuestions, One cape photo per key request? or can I do a group photo of capes in one photo? With my email address.
In requesting Keys for Scott's BBB or PB capes do I need Receipt of purchase from Cape Manufacturer (JLCPCB)?
One pic is fine and for the DIY capes you have we just need to see the board itself, no receipt or other proof needed.

For now while we are grandfathering in the other non-DIY capes, a pic is fine for those as well because we know that the board was purchased prior to the end date.   After the transition period ends on July 31, 2022, that is when we will need to see a receipt to confirm the commercial cape was purchased prior to August 1, 2022.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: algerdes on May 27, 2022, 08:55:12 AM
The scenario:
8 RPi connected via a slew of NetGear switches 
12 Falcon F16 (v2, v3 [no V4])
2 Falcon F48
5 SanDevices 
3 J1Sys Boards
10 Renard based AC Boards (models not known at this time)
3 DIYLEDExpress 6 output boards
5 RPi with Falcon PiCaps
1 Kulp K8
2 Kulp K16
1 Kulp K32A-B
1 Kulp K4-PB
2 Kulp K40D-PB

Is there anything in this menagerie that would require all this fancy licensing?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 27, 2022, 12:54:04 PM
Quote from: algerdes on May 27, 2022, 08:55:12 AMThe scenario:
8 RPi connected via a slew of NetGear switches
12 Falcon F16 (v2, v3 [no V4])
2 Falcon F48
5 SanDevices
3 J1Sys Boards
10 Renard based AC Boards (models not known at this time)
3 DIYLEDExpress 6 output boards
5 RPi with Falcon PiCaps
1 Kulp K8
2 Kulp K16
1 Kulp K32A-B
1 Kulp K4-PB
2 Kulp K40D-PB

Is there anything in this menagerie that would require all this fancy licensing?

As long as your Kulp capes are the 'K' models and not Dan's original F8-B or F32-B models, then they are new enough to have an onboard EEPROM, and you should be good to go as-is.  No key required.

None of the other boards require keys.  On the PiCaps, when you upgrade to FPP v6, you will need to select the "PiHat" Virtual EEPROM from the Pixel Strings Channel Outputs config page and that will let FPP use your existing configs which don't need the key.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Frenchie King on May 27, 2022, 12:58:45 PM
Quote from: mrpburke on May 22, 2022, 09:25:28 PMHow will the distinction be made between someone who is selling them for profit and someone who may just be selling extras that they built since when you order from JLCPCB they come in multiples of 5? I wont need all 5 that I'm building and I wouldnt mind giving one or 2 away at cost but I'd want to make sure that wouldnt get me classified as selling for profit. If that would I'll just keep all 5 and have some backups on hand in case they're ever needed.

So first off, let's talk about the elephant in the room. If you know how much the parts cost, then you'd know that buying parts from Digikey would cost in the range of around $107 for parts for the THT type board, then add in the $70 for the BBB, which is at cost and then letting the end user setup FPP on their own. So if you like math, then you'll see there wasn't much profit being made when sold for $180 plus shipping. Remember, the PB and SMD technology is cheaper and requires less parts. Second, do not try to make yourself out to be a saint because you wouldn't want to be one of the "for profit" guys. If you're nervous about falling into that category, then don't build the other four boards. Sell the bare boards for the cost you got them at or better yet, build them and donate them. If you build them and sell them, then consider your hypocrisy when you think you know what you're talking about to make yourself look good to the Devs.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Frenchie King on May 27, 2022, 01:01:00 PM
@CaptainMurdoch i tried reaching out to you on FB messenger to talk about vouchers. May have to check your message requests. 
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 27, 2022, 01:19:32 PM
Quote from: Frenchie King on May 27, 2022, 01:01:00 PM@CaptainMurdoch i tried reaching out to you on FB messenger to talk about vouchers. May have to check your message requests.

FB wasn't popping up those alerts on my phone or setting a badge on the icon.  Thanks for the heads up, I will send you a message.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: mrpburke on May 29, 2022, 04:50:28 AM
Quote from: Frenchie King on May 27, 2022, 12:58:45 PM
Quote from: mrpburke on May 22, 2022, 09:25:28 PMHow will the distinction be made between someone who is selling them for profit and someone who may just be selling extras that they built since when you order from JLCPCB they come in multiples of 5? I wont need all 5 that I'm building and I wouldnt mind giving one or 2 away at cost but I'd want to make sure that wouldnt get me classified as selling for profit. If that would I'll just keep all 5 and have some backups on hand in case they're ever needed.

So first off, let's talk about the elephant in the room. If you know how much the parts cost, then you'd know that buying parts from Digikey would cost in the range of around $107 for parts for the THT type board, then add in the $70 for the BBB, which is at cost and then letting the end user setup FPP on their own. So if you like math, then you'll see there wasn't much profit being made when sold for $180 plus shipping. Remember, the PB and SMD technology is cheaper and requires less parts. Second, do not try to make yourself out to be a saint because you wouldn't want to be one of the "for profit" guys. If you're nervous about falling into that category, then don't build the other four boards. Sell the bare boards for the cost you got them at or better yet, build them and donate them. If you build them and sell them, then consider your hypocrisy when you think you know what you're talking about to make yourself look good to the Devs.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm still on the fence about selling them at all for the reasons I've already stated. 

But I had considered selling the bare/partially built or donating and will likely go with one of those. I say partially built bc I had to order them without a few smd chips that were OOS and I've already added them on the boards. And I've added the other necessary parts to test out some basic functions of the capes. Fuse holders and 3p pixel connectors will likely be up to the next person if I go that route. 
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AM
First Question,
What the hell is DPI pixels?

I've have had BBB48 boards since FPP came out.

When you first started talking about the eeprom thing,
I reached out to get more info about it, but got told there was plenty of information and how easy it was to use it.

Since i got no support back then, i never saw the reason to add the eeprom to my boards

Now Im being told that since someone added "DPI Pixel" code into FPP, My Controllers will No Longer Work,
 and i now need to pay a license fee for my controllers to working or to sell them.

I call what you are doing is RIPPING off everyone,
(making a monopoly of 2 selected gods allowed to make controllers without license issues)

What about the original DIY RGB123 card that you based your original code on for controlling the 48 pins? (killed that in the process as well i see)

My DIY controller is only $50 (aud) and $15 (aud) soldered up.
But Now you think its fine to start demanding $50 (usd) = ($75aud) for some license for a chip, (until 2 months ago said no info on how to use it).


If you are honestly doing this for the better of the community,
-Why did you keep board designers in the dark about this eeprom an how to program it.?
-So what was your plan for using a eeprom? For board designers data? Or really a plan to add a license fee's?

You say there is a grace thing?
So how will this work?
My boards don't have the eeprom thing, due to lack of support and information from you's.

What about the customers that also have a version of my board? since no eeprom how is that possible for a license
(Also Who gave you permission to know how many controllers I sell?, This way your forcing business to give you that information to you.)

Im sorry your boards got copyed.
BUT there is no need to SCREW everyone else in this christmas hobby because of it.

Ohh i forgot,
Its Now just a money grabbing thing for you. (The Christmas spirit has left you, and you's became the Grinch stealing people's xmas shows)
Since you's want to stop all other board designers, or make it that hard for there customers.
Just so you can force them to buy your product, because its easyer to use without the license issue's

The Way you's have gone about this is totally SUS.
Also it is In moral for a business (that FPP now is due to licensing) to demand product sales information from other vendors that use this product.

Also where are my Grace Codes?
I have 8 BBB with my capes on them. So where is this illegal license your forcing on people?

Honestly there is going to be alot of abuse in zoom, When people say to upgrade FPP and it destroys people's shows cause of your license crap.

Unless your able to provide more information into what this license thing can do for my product.
eg.
- So i design a board to use a eeprom, for your new license.
- What are you offering the board designers for that license fee?
- You talk about special DPI pixel code, What is it? , What does it do?
- How can i integrate these new things on my boards

Does the License Fee cover any or all of the above questions?
(Or does the license only cover you's 2 and products you buy for research & future additions to your boards.)

What does the License really cover? (Some code that once worked? but you re-coded it to so you can charge money for it?)

Until you can be more Clear,
I will stick to FPP v5, and recommend everyone does the same,
Due to your money making grab, now using the license thing to back it up

Alec
SmartAlec Lights.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on May 30, 2022, 07:31:39 AM
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhat the hell is DPI pixels?
It is a new protocol that lets you drive 24 ports on a Pi AND keep the Audio

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMNow Im being told that since someone added "DPI Pixel" code into FPP, My Controllers will No Longer Work,
DPIPixels has nothing to do with BBB based boards

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMi now need to pay a license fee for my controllers to working or to sell them
No, your controllers will work just fine as long as you stay on version 5.5 (or spend the time to create your own program)

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMI call what you are doing is RIPPING off everyone,
(making a monopoly of 2 selected gods allowed to make controllers without license issues)
Isn't that what you are doing? A controller has NO logic whatsoever. The developers (it is more than just 2) have spent thousands of hours perfecting the code in FPP to work on BB based capes. A couple of those develops sell controllers to get a little return from all of their hard work. Then a bunch of people started making uncomplicated controllers (that are totally useless without FPP) and they did not contribute one cent to support the efforts of the people responsible to make their board actually work.
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMMy DIY controller is only $50 (aud) and $15 (aud) soldered up.
But Now you think its fine to start demanding $50 (usd) = ($75aud) for some license for a chip, (until 2 months ago said no info on how to use it).
Did you look in Gitgub? it IS documented on how to use it and there are several other board manufacturers that created board with eeprom in the last several years
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhy did you keep board designers in the dark about this eeprom an how to program it.?
Like I said, it is documented in Github
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMSo what was your plan for using a eeprom? For board designers data? Or really a plan to add a license fee's?
Look it up
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMYou say there is a grace thing?
So how will this work?
https://shop.falconplayer.com/key-announcement/
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMBUT there is no need to SCREW everyone else in this christmas hobby because of it.
Like I said, isn't that what you are doing by profiting off of the thousands and thousands of hours that the developer put into writing the code that your board needs to work?
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMAlso it is In moral for a business (that FPP now is due to licensing) to demand product sales information from other vendors that use this product.
They are not demanding any sales information. The user can buy the license on their own.
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMHonestly there is going to be alot of abuse in zoom, When people say to upgrade FPP and it destroys people's shows cause of your license crap.
Not sure how that even makes sense
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMSo i design a board to use a eeprom, for your new license.
No eeprom needed 
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhat are you offering the board designers for that license fee?
Bulk discounts
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMUntil you can be more Clear,
I will stick to FPP v5, and recommend everyone does the same,
And that is fine....it is your business.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Darren H on May 30, 2022, 12:17:10 PM
Grabs popcorn while handing money to FPP..  ;D
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 01:19:57 PM
I've been waiting to speak up (as if anyone would actually listen to me) until now.

I can understand why this has come about.  Yes - people have taken advantage of the great work that others have done to make this software, hardware, and interfaces happen.  MANY MORE have used it as it was intended.  This is "Open Source". 

To be honest, I wish you would have just forked the code to something like "Falcon Player Advanced".  Charge for the new software and let the original code sit.  If the base version sits, it has reached a point of being usable by many.  Trying to retrofit a use condition to products already in the field can only bring a world of hurt to the community.  A hurt that is just opposite of what we have all lived in.

Considering the giving nature of this community, it can only ruffle some the wrong way (as we have already seen.)  The nature of the Open Source licensing that all of this has been under for so long pretty much says, "Take whatever we have here and use it for whatever you want."   

When the different parts of what is needed to make lights blink became entwined, there was a caution flag that went up around here.  A fervent push by some to use the software (xLights) to control all the hardware (FPP based, Controller Setups, etc.) left some with a "what the heck" feeling.  What if you aren't "main stream", doing everything only one way?  This is a discussion for another time, but it needs to be had - eventually.

I've been away from software development for some time.  I do, however, recognize the amount of work that some very talented people have put into all aspects of this hobby.  This software/firmware would not have been possible without this steady stream of extremely talented workers.  So how do we reward you for your work, yet keep the open source you built everything under?

Again, forking the software/firmware/etc. to a new version seems to be the only way forward, IMHO. 

BTW - This includes xLights, FPP, etc.  These have all been presented to the world as "Open Source".  Changing mid-stream may work - but rarely does.  Trying to get back at people that saw an opportunity, I wonder how that fits into the sense of community we have seen emerge over the past 15 years.

How many times has xLights been taken and used for paid shows?  How are you going to stop that? 

I've said my peace.  I'll be sticking with 5.x for now.
PLEASE do not cripple the work that you have done to this point.  PLEASE allow those of us that don't feel that all these hoops are necessary to the ability to give the children and adults who come to see our displays the joy that we wish for them.

BTW - If I ever see the utility in FP Advanced, I'll give it a look.  Not at the expense of shunning others from the hobby.
Good luck folks.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: yo3ham on May 30, 2022, 01:47:31 PM
As an engineer I understand both sides. I always said, on the Facebook groups etc, that the BBB capes called "controllers" are not CONTROLLERS, they are just ADAPTERS, they contain nothing but fuses, sockets, buffers and other insignificant parts, all the CONTROLLING is done in the FPP software.
Yes, there are REAL controllers out there, like the Falcon ones, but these are connected to Ethernet and use their own "intelligence" in the form of programmable chips (processors, FPGAs, etc). For these chips, there is an immense work in programming.

The difference in complexity between a Falcon and one of these hats/capes is gigantic, it's like a real car versus a child's toy car.
And yet people are selling these hat/cape ADAPTERS at prices which rival a Falcon or even more expensive than the BBB or Raspi itself !!! which is ridiculous comparing the amount of work and complexity !

I have built my own ADAPTER, compatible with a cap/hat at an extremely low cost by omitting everything which is not strictly necessary. You can get a chinese PCB at $5 + another $5 shipping if you want to wait 1-2 months. Another $5 for 2-3 buffer chips (enough for 20 channels) and all the female sockets and other small parts. Of course, sourced in China. I don't count the cost of fuses because these are consumables and you need to buy replacements anyway.  It is ilogical that such a simple schematic get near or OVER the price of the BBB which is enormously complex !

So yes as an engineer I put myself in the place of the FPP developers. I would certainly be very ANGRY seeing people making PROFIT form selling these ADAPTERS, calling them "controllers", by using the developer's work (yes, there are really thounsands of hours for such a complex software project) which was given for free !

On the other hand, users won't be happy with this change and all these licensing complexity added. History shows that, when a service which used to be free isn't anymore, things don't happen as expected, people usually look for, and find, a free alternative. I don't know what will come next... possibly a fork in FPP? possibly an entire new project ? we don't know what the future will bring...
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 30, 2022, 04:35:07 PM
I'm not going to get into a shouting match, but wanted to point out a few things.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMFirst Question,
What the hell is DPI pixels?

It's in the FAQ which were linked to in the announcement in the the first post in this thread and linked to in the thread you replied to on auschristmaslighting.com.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMI've have had BBB48 boards since FPP came out.

When FPP first started, it didn't have the ability to control pixels directly, it needed an external controller.  We added the ability to control pixels directly about 2 years later when we created the F4-B, F16-B, and PiCap with their corresponding channel outputs and started using the funds from selling those capes to help support FPP development.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhen you first started talking about the eeprom thing,
I reached out to get more info about it, but got told there was plenty of information and how easy it was to use it.

I looked through your 17 posts on the forum and don't see a single one asking about EEPROMs.  I realize you may have asked elsewhere, but there have been multiple threads over the years talking about EEPROMs, the EEPROM format has been documented in the git repository, and we recently even added a script to make it easier for people to create their own EEPROMs.

We will gladly help you get one formatted and added to your boards.  You can also use a virtual EEPROM or you can probably stick with one of the virtuals we have already added to the repository.  Since we don't have anything specific about your cape in FPP currently, that means you must be using the pinout for another cape which means you can always use the virtual EEPROM created for that cape.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMNow Im being told that since someone added "DPI Pixel" code into FPP, My Controllers will No Longer Work,
 and i now need to pay a license fee for my controllers to working or to sell them.

You can't always believe what you hear on the internet.  Read the list of questions and answers in the FAQ or ask your own question, we have been more than willing to answer questions in here and on FaceBook.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMI call what you are doing is RIPPING off everyone,
(making a monopoly of 2 selected gods allowed to make controllers without license issues)

Explain to me how you using my code to make you money is me ripping you off?  If you have been selling BBB capes for years, then you have been making money off FPP for years.  You have been receiving free development so that you could make money.  How am I ripping you off???

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhat about the original DIY RGB123 card that you based your original code on for controlling the 48 pins? (killed that in the process as well i see)

Again, read the FAQ.  If anyone has one of these capes already, they get a free voucher and can continue on using the board forever with FPP, including those daily/weekly/monthly/yearly FREE FPP upgrades that we as developers are giving you.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMMy DIY controller is only $50 (aud) and $15 (aud) soldered up.
But Now you think its fine to start demanding $50 (usd) = ($75aud) for some license for a chip, (until 2 months ago said no info on how to use it).

This tells me you haven't even clicked the https://shop.falconplayer.com link and are just spewing FUD.  There is no $50 U.S. license.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMYou say there is a grace thing?
So how will this work?
My boards don't have the eeprom thing, due to lack of support and information from you's.

Again, read the FAQ. Everything is spelled out there.  We just started accepting voucher requests on Friday and in 3 days, we have given out over 50 vouchers. As a vendor, you knew about this before this was posted publicly because we invited you to join the Cape Vendor's group on the forum here and yet you haven't posted in there yet.  I get the feeling you are purposefully trying to stir things up by stating a lot of incorrect facts.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhat about the customers that also have a version of my board? since no eeprom how is that possible for a license
(Also Who gave you permission to know how many controllers I sell?, This way your forcing business to give you that information to you.)

No one is forcing any vendor to give us any information.  Your customers are free to continue to use FPP v5.5 for as long as they wish or to they can choose to get a free voucher, upgrade to FPP v6, and continue to get free FPP upgrades.  Neither of those situations involves you giving us any information.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMBUT there is no need to SCREW everyone else in this christmas hobby because of it.

Again with the FUD.  Every single person who used any previous version of FPP with a pixel string cape (other than the PiCap/PiHat 2-string capes) including the RGB123 capes is entitled to a free voucher.  AND anyone who buys a cape from a 3rd party vendor before July 31 is also entitled to a free voucher.  We are bending over backwards to make sure that users are fully aware of what they have and make sure they can use FPP v6 and beyond.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMIts Now just a money grabbing thing for you. (The Christmas spirit has left you, and you's became the Grinch stealing people's xmas shows)
Since you's want to stop all other board designers, or make it that hard for there customers.
Just so you can force them to buy your product, because its easyer to use without the license issue's

Since when did the Christmas spirit involve me working hard to write software so that you can open a shop and make money on the software that I wrote?  Since when did I commit to continuing to write free software for your business forever?

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMAlso where are my Grace Codes?
I have 8 BBB with my capes on them. So where is this illegal license your forcing on people?

Did you follow the instructions to request the codes?  I could be a total pain and post screenshots proving that you didn't (you didn't even list a quantity in your email), but I won't stoop all the way to that level and instead will say that a voucher for 8 keys is in your email.

On the legality aspect.  Dan and I wrote the pixel string channel output code affected by this, we can legally do with it what we want as long a we aren't violating any laws.    We could delete the code if we wanted, but instead we kept it open for DIY users because we support that part of the hobby.  You aren't entitled to free upgrades for life and we aren't required to continue writing code for you so that your business can make money.  If you don't want to deal with any license issues, even a free license which we are giving you, then you can stay on FPP v5.5.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMUnless your able to provide more information into what this license thing can do for my product.
eg.
- So i design a board to use a eeprom, for your new license.
- What are you offering the board designers for that license fee?
- You talk about special DPI pixel code, What is it? , What does it do?
- How can i integrate these new things on my boards

Read the FAQ, hundreds of users already have.  As a vendor, you should also.

Using an EEPROM lets your board be auto-discovered and setup with a default configuration. It lets you add an OLED, buttons, and other things.  Having an EEPROM lets you put your vendor logo at the top of FPP right in the header.  It lets you put your store URL and other info in the Cape Info section of the FPP UI to steer users towards your site.  A lot of this is already noted in places, but we also plan to make a couple template EEPROM directories that can be used by people to create their own EEPROMs whether they are vendors selling capes or users making their own capes.  We have a lot of users who created their own capes, I expect that is where some of the existing vendors started out at as well.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMDoes the License Fee cover any or all of the above questions?
(Or does the license only cover you's 2 and products you buy for research & future additions to your boards.)

Again, read the FAQ.  We are not licensing FPP to _you_.  You couldn't afford what we would charge for the custom programming considering the tens of thousands of hours that have gone into developing FPP over the past 9 years.  Instead, we chose to license a single small portion of FPP that makes FPP a pixel controller. A portion that cape vendors are currently making money off of and where only a select portion of that vendor group is currently contributing anything back to support FPP development.

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMUntil you can be more Clear,
I will stick to FPP v5, and recommend everyone does the same,

You are more than welcome to do that.  We are happy that you see the value that FPP provides even if you are opposed to something that helps support the project's continued development.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 30, 2022, 04:39:04 PM
Quote from: Darren H on May 30, 2022, 12:17:10 PMGrabs popcorn while handing money to FPP..  ;D

Thanks Darren, I would say pass the popcorn, but I prefer my own personal large bucket.  :)

You have been very supportive in all this, but I did want to make one comment about your comment. :)

Not only would you be handing money to FPP in this (if you were buying vouchers), but you would also be making money off FPP, so it's a win/win.  Support the developers who are supporting you and enabling you to make money selling FPP-based capes.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 30, 2022, 05:03:11 PM
Quote from: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 01:19:57 PMI've been waiting to speak up (as if anyone would actually listen to me) until now.

Al, you have been a long-time FPP supporter, so we do respect your input.

Quote from: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 01:19:57 PMTo be honest, I wish you would have just forked the code to something like "Falcon Player Advanced".  Charge for the new software and let the original code sit.  If the base version sits, it has reached a point of being usable by many.  Trying to retrofit a use condition to products already in the field can only bring a world of hurt to the community.  A hurt that is just opposite of what we have all lived in.

This was an option, but I don't think people realize what this would mean.  Dan and I are responsible for about 90% of commits and lines of code in the project currently.  We have a couple more guys who are actively working, but most of the coding is done by 2 people.  Forking the project ourselves and maintaining an 'advanced' version would probably split our focus and mean we were spending more time on the advanced version than the free version.  The way we did it by just licensing the small portion that makes FPP a pixel controller allows the free version to continue to receive the enhancements and development focus we give it.  I think I can accurately say that we spend more time working on non-channel-output code than on the channel output code.  All that other stuff is still GPL and totally free.  We have stats which show that only around 25% of FPP users use FPP as a pixel controller, the other 75% use FPP as a player and the player portion of FPP is not affected at all by this.

Quote from: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 01:19:57 PMI've said my peace.  I'll be sticking with 5.x for now.
PLEASE do not cripple the work that you have done to this point.

Do you realize that you are totally unaffected by all of this based on your signature line?  According to your signature line, you are not using anything that would require a license key.  FPP receives a tiny amount of donations and selling capes (PiCap and Kulp) helps support development so that we can continue to keep the rest of the project fully open and Free for use for both personal and commercial users.

None of the below from your signature are affected:
=================================
Sequencers: Vixen3 and xLights
Players: FPP and xSchedule Controllers:  Renards - SS24/SS16; E1.31 - San Devices E682 - Falcon F16, F4, F48 - J1Sys - DIYLEDExpress E1.31 Bridges.  Much more!
=================================

Even if they were affected, you would be grandfathered in and get free vouchers.

Quote from: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 01:19:57 PMPLEASE allow those of us that don't feel that all these hoops are necessary to the ability to give the children and adults who come to see our displays the joy that we wish for them.

Al, I have probably spent 10-15,000 hours of my time working on this project over the past 9 years and I didn't do it for the money.  I could have made a whole lot more money doing custom programming for those hours, but I chose to work on the project for myself and for the smiles it brings to people's faces when I see kids sitting on top of SUV's parked in front of my house watching the lights blink.   We did not start working on FPP to write code for others to turn around and make money off of while not supporting the project itself and not helping further development.  We saw two solutions to that, 1) we lock things down as some have tried to get us to do and not allow any 3rd party capes, or 2) we go the opposite direction and open it up and support vendors making capes and making money off the ecosystem we have built while acknowledging that their "controller" has no smarts itself and is nothing but wires and that FPP is the brains of that "controller".  We don't expect a lot to come in from this, but the number of 3rd party capes being sold is an increasing number and we want to make sure that those are helping to support FPP development rather than just drawing away supporting users who would otherwise purchase a DPIPixels-based or Kulp cape which do support FPP development.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Darren H on May 30, 2022, 05:58:31 PM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 30, 2022, 04:39:04 PM
Quote from: Darren H on May 30, 2022, 12:17:10 PMGrabs popcorn while handing money to FPP..  ;D

Thanks Darren, I would say pass the popcorn, but I prefer my own personal large bucket.  :)

You have been very supportive in all this, but I did want to make one comment about your comment. :)

Not only would you be handing money to FPP in this (if you were buying vouchers), but you would also be making money off FPP, so it's a win/win.  Support the developers who are supporting you and enabling you to make money selling FPP-based capes.
We might require whiskey sour soon.  ;D
Everyone at FPP has done awesome work and just so happy to finally do more with FPP.  
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: dkulp on May 30, 2022, 07:02:17 PM
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMFirst Question,

I've been trying my best to stay out of most of these discussions as I have an obvious bias.  I've been happy to let CaptainMurdoch drive most of the changes. I was more than happy to provide input as both an FPP Developer as well as a cape vendor.  As CaptainMurdoch states, most of your questions/issues are already addressed in the FAQ.  Part of the problem we had with drafting the announcement was how to balance putting all the information that is needed with not letting the announcement get too long so no one would read it.  :)  By making sure the FAQ had all the details, we tried to make sure all the information is available.

Some additional information:  last year as part of FPP5, we added optional statistic collection such that when FPP starts up (and periodically), it sends some information about the configuration back to us.  Major major thanks to Greg for working on this last year. This information is intended to help us better understand how FPP is being used and help us prioritize where to spend efforts, etc... We KNOW there are a lot of FPP instances that are on private networks and cannot post their stats and, of course, there are plenty of people that have opted out of providing the stats.  However, over the last year, over 9600 unique devices have provided information.  I'm not a statistician, but I believe that that is a fairly significant sample size to provide fairly good confidence in the data.  Anyway, we don't provide the raw data, but you can play with some of it at:
https://fppstats.falconchristmas.com/

As part of deciding what options to consider, we dug into that data.  To give you and idea, out of over 9600 devices, the decision only affects 73 devices.  That's 0.76%. While 73 is certainly greater than 0, (and again, some number of "offline" devices) it's a manageable number.  From the data, we could see that a large chunk of those are "DIY" capes, which is awesome.  We love to see that!  The impact for them will always be the few minutes it takes to get the free voucher.  For the remainder, guess what?  They are all also grandfathered in and get a free voucher!  Yes, it takes a few minutes to do, but we've tried to stream line that as much as possible.  Thus, will this change make anyones currently working controller not work?  Nope.  If you ran a show off any controller last year or purchased a new controller in the first half of this year, you can continue to use it to the full ability.  Feel free to upgrade to FPP 6!

The only impact (other than the few minutes it takes to get/apply a voucher) will be to people purchasing BBB based or Pi/DPI based controllers later this year.  And we've streamlined that fairly well where the vendor can bulk purchase vouchers and it will be a simple form right in FPP to apply it for the user.

Anyway, to address specifics in your post (removing chunks that  Captain and other addressed so this doesn't become super long)(likely too late)


Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMI've have had BBB48 boards since FPP came out.

When you first started talking about the eeprom thing,
I reached out to get more info about it, but got told there was plenty of information and how easy it was to use it.

Since i got no support back then, i never saw the reason to add the eeprom to my boards

Now Im being told that since someone added "DPI Pixel" code into FPP, My Controllers will No Longer Work,
 and i now need to pay a license fee for my controllers to working or to sell them.

As mentioned above, every controller you currently are using for your show as well as every controller you have sold so far are completely grandfathered in and are entitled to a free voucher.  You do not need to pay a license fee to use them.


Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhat about the original DIY RGB123 card that you based your original code on for controlling the 48 pins? (killed that in the process as well i see)

The "original DIY RGB123" code was removed from FPP back in FPP 2.0.  It was horribly inefficient, did not work with modern (even modern at the time) Linux kernels, and was generally a mess.  Since that time, the BBB pixel output code has been almost completely re-written at least three times.  Since most of that is hand tuned assembly running on a PRU where debuggers were not available and even things like "printf" don't work, it's not easy.  It's very time consuming.  However, every time I spend 100's of hours doing that work, your boards benefited.

When we moved from Debian Stetch to Buster, the kernel the BBB.org folks supplied caused issues with the pixel out code.  I spent a TON of time trying to figure things out and eventually started building our own Linux kernel (which, BTW, takes FOREVER on a single core BBB) to create a kernel we can rely on.  Again, a ton of work that all the BBB based capes "got for free", or at least was a requirement to get up to the newer Debian and all the security things and features and such.


Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMIf you are honestly doing this for the better of the community,
-Why did you keep board designers in the dark about this eeprom an how to program it.?
-So what was your plan for using a eeprom? For board designers data? Or really a plan to add a license fee's?

Since I wrote the original EEPROM code, the MAIN reason for the eeprom was to prevent the proliferation of bunches and bunches of string configuration files in the FPP repository. It also allowed some level of FORWARD compatibility.  By having board designers put the pinouts of their capes into the eeprom as well as default configurations, settings, etc... board designers can design the boards as they see fit and not locked into the pinouts provided in the FPP repo.  The RGBCape* pinouts are actually horrible, and the original F16/F4 pinouts aren't much better.  When I started designing my own F8 (and eventually F32, both predating my K* series), I was running into various issues and rather than adding more and more pinouts into FPP, it made sense to put that configuration on the board itself.

Also, it provides a much better experience for the user.  The user doensn't need to select the "RGBCape48F" from the list.  The ONLY thing in the list is the cape that is attached.  The LED Panels page is hidden since FPP knows it's a string cape.  Etc...


Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AM.... bunch of stuff already addressed above snipped ....

I will stick to FPP v5, and recommend everyone does the same,
Due to your money making grab, now using the license thing to back it up

Sticking with FPP v5 is certain an option, at least for the next couple years.  Over time, I'm sure FPP5 on the controller will continue to work fine, but it's likely that integration with the rest of the ecosystem will slowly erode and you may need to do more work to continue using it.  For example, at some point in the future, automatic uploads from xLights might break as API's change, config formats, change, etc...  I don't know, I cannot predict the future.  However, xLights did drop all support for FPP 1.x a long time ago (all interaction with FPP 1.x was via FTP which sucked), FPP 2.x upload only works for a couple of things, and not at all for FPP before 2.6 if I remember correctly, and FPP 3.x also doesn't work for many things. At some point, xLights will move forward.  It's BEST if you take advantage of the free vouchers now and not have to worry about in the future.  Either that or plan on sticking with the current versions of xLights indefinitely as well.

Also, FPP gets new features, enhancements, and bug fixes all the time.  It would kind of suck to tell folks they should stay on versions that aren't supported long term and not get those updates.  I think that's what's bugging me the most about your message.  You are concentrating on just the BBB48String code and not really about the entire thing.  If you've been selling boards since FPP 2 days, you have to admit that it's pretty amazing that the boards you sold 4-5 years ago have gotten very significant feature upgrades EVERY SINGLE YEAR.  Up until now, they were free.  Those exact boards can do way more things than they could years ago and are generally way more user friendly (with the new UI, inplace updates, etc...).  There are FPP plugins now that extend functionality even more.  If you look at ANY other controller that was sold 4 or 5 years ago, I guarantee that they have not had the same level of functionality "firmware" updates that your controllers have gotten, FOR FREE.  Is $30 too much to ask for continued yearly functional updates? (actually several times a year, major releases in August-ish, several point releases as well)

Anyway, I was trying to not let this get too long and I think I've failed at that.  :) 
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on May 30, 2022, 09:37:16 PM
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMWhen you first started talking about the eeprom thing,
I reached out to get more info about it, but got told there was plenty of information and how easy it was to use it.

Did you look at the information or just want the developers to create your eeproms for you for free? They explained it pretty well and if you had a problem understanding it, then you could have asked specific questions about the problem you were having instead of expecting them to do it for you.
And FYI for you and any others interested, the information needed to program an eeprom has been in GitHub since early 2020 so it isn't anything hidden or unknown (unless you are too lazy to look for yourself)

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMIf you are honestly doing this for the better of the community,
-Why did you keep board designers in the dark about this eeprom an how to program it.?
How is fully documenting the specifications for the eeprom in a place that is not only public but actually part of the FPP code base itself for over 2 years keeping you in the dark?

Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMIm sorry your boards got copyed.

But you are not sorry for making money off of the hard work the developers put in to support your controllers?

And since you decided to make a spectacle of this, I want others to know what the developers actually did for YOU and ALL of the vendors (that they know about)

They researched the forum and Facebook and reached out to all of the known vendors and actually created a special forum group for the vendors to ask questions and get their concerns answered. Basically a direct line for the vendors to contact the developers to get their concerns and to get input from them. You did not ask one question there but instead, wait to post BS about something that you obviously don't know what you are talking about since the info you quoted was incorrect or answered more than once is several public postings AND in the Cape Vendors Forum (that you were invited to) On May 13th they even created a script to basically program the eeprom for you. Do they need help programming an eeprom (I highly doubt it)? Why would they put it out there then?

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 10:29:19 PM
I have said my peace (purposely used this spelling as to try to get everyone to chill out.)
I will say that Dan, Dave, Chris, Keith, Scott, Sean, (and the list goes on) are considered friends.  You do deserve everything you can get in all of this.

My main point about forking the program to an "advanced version" did not come across as I wanted.

I believe that the software/firmware/etc. has reached a stage that could go stagnant for the "basic version".  We did this for hospital software.  Once the fork went into place, those hospitals using the old version would only receive security updates.  Each hospital chose whether they wanted to move to the advanced.  We had some that did stay, and they worked for years.  

If I could get this melon on my shoulders back into a programming mode, I would even go so far as to strip out things that the normal person doesn't use/need.  Someday in the future, perhaps, I would update to the newer, constantly changing version.  I doubt it, but it could happen.  Unfortunately, grey cells in working order are getting fewer and fewer.  I'll have to leave it to you all.

Thanks again for listening.  I'll step back and watch all that is going on.  In several ways, it is entertaining, if nothing else.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 30, 2022, 11:22:16 PM
Quote from: algerdes on May 30, 2022, 10:29:19 PMIf I could get this melon on my shoulders back into a programming mode, I would even go so far as to strip out things that the normal person doesn't use/need.  Someday in the future, perhaps, I would update to the newer, constantly changing version.  I doubt it, but it could happen.  Unfortunately, grey cells in working order are getting fewer and fewer.  I'll have to leave it to you all.

We have actually started doing that some, partially out of necessity and partially out of obsolescence.  I prefer to not delete anything anyone is using, but sometimes we do need to break a few eggs to move forward.  The stats collection that Dan mentioned is one of the things that has helped us because it gives us insight into how FPP is being used for those that opt-in to the stats collection.  Every major version upgrade of FPP has had some "breaking changes" and along the way we have had some "no longer supported" features removed.  The core of FPP has become immensely more powerful and a lot easier to use over the past 9 years.

One big change that Dan implemented years ago was moving most FPP code to libraries, including all channel outputs which are loaded on-demand.  There is a chance that at some point in the future, you could see some of the legacy channel outputs moved to a plugin since we now have the framework to add channel output plugins.  This would be partially what you are referring to.  I have added several channel outputs that maybe a couple people are using because they were oddball things that I wanted to do or try over the years.  Some of that code could start moving to plugins to shrink the code base, or we could revamp the build system more to only build outputs that are needed based on the current configuration.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: smartalec on May 31, 2022, 03:31:43 AM
Quote from: dkulp on May 30, 2022, 07:02:17 PMIs $30 too much to ask for continued yearly functional updates? (actually several times a year, major releases in August-ish, several point releases as well)

so $30usd is $45 aud,
In 6 yrs i sold 8 boards @ $50each, (6 of them for my show)
Dam i really made a hell of alot of money off your hard work did'nt I!!
Still im not told how long this grandfathered license lasts
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on May 31, 2022, 04:37:10 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 30, 2022, 05:03:11 PMI have probably spent 10-15,000 hours of my time working on this project over the past 9 years and I didn't do it for the money.  I could have made a whole lot more money doing custom programming for those hours,

.
but I chose to work on the project for myself and for the smiles it brings to people's faces when I see kids sitting on top of SUV's parked in front of my house watching the lights blink. 
.
We did not start working on FPP to write code for others to turn around and make money off of while not supporting the project itself and not helping further development. 
Reading over this thread so far, I am seeing a lot mentioned about 'have to continue work on FPP' and 'future development'.

Spending thousands of hours on this open sourced project is great and you did not expect to do it for money, which has been answered in the quote above.

I am comprehending that licencing is because you feel that your work is being taken away and put onto something being sold.
- Fair enough, I agree to that feeling.
Also that licence funding is for the benefit of the program advancing ('future development') rather than yourselves.





I apologise for how blunt this sounds.  To be very clear: You do a tremendous job and I am not implying that you should walk away from the project.
An honest answer please from CaptainMurdoch & dkulp:
Why have you continued to put thousands of hours of work into FPP when you knew people were selling hardware to run with it?


I am on the side line watching this unfold and would like to know your mentality behind why you continue to work on FPP.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: JonB256 on May 31, 2022, 05:58:06 AM
Using FPP and xLights is my hobby. I don't write code. I don't even understand much of it, but I always have 4 to 6 instances of FPP running in the house. I keep them running Master Branch because it lets me see where things are headed. I check the FPP Forum here way too often. Did I mention it is a hobby? NONE of this has come as a surprise to me because I have stayed so current with the software. If I were a hardware developer with any intention of making Capes or Hats, I would expect the same level of interest. I'm not part of any developer forum and have never been asked for input about what should or shouldn't be changed in FPP. But still, I keep current and could see EXACTLY where things were headed.

All that said, there are people still running FPP 2.x and FPP 3.x and FPP 4.x. I started with FPP 1.0 and it has been a grand adventure. It's a hobby; pass the popcorn.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Kensington Graves on May 31, 2022, 07:37:30 AM
QuoteWhy have you continued to put thousands of hours of work into FPP when you knew people were selling hardware to run with it?

Honestly, does it matter?  They own the intellectual property.  Legally, they are the gods and kings over FPP and anyone who uses it is entirely subject to their whims.  They could continue to support it, or they could delete the codebase tomorrow.  "Open Source" has never meant "freeware," although many have come to expect that.

I enjoy the technical challenge of building a light show, and I enjoy the entertainment value the neighbors get.  Last year I didn't have the motivation to put up lights, but the neighbors kept asking when the lights were going up, so in mid-December I went live.  But irrespective of my motivations, I'd be unhappy if someone else were charging admission to my show, and I'd act to rectify that situation ricky tick.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on May 31, 2022, 08:10:01 AM
Quote from: smartalec on May 31, 2022, 03:31:43 AMIn 6 yrs i sold 8 boards @ $50each,
You stated that your boards were $50 for the DIY version? If so, there would be no cost for the user to get a FULL license! So what is the problem?
Quote from: smartalec on May 31, 2022, 03:31:43 AMStill im not told how long this grandfathered license lasts
Have you read all of the announcements?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 31, 2022, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on May 31, 2022, 04:37:10 AMI apologise for how blunt this sounds.  To be very clear: You do a tremendous job and I am not implying that you should walk away from the project.
An honest answer please from CaptainMurdoch & dkulp:
Why have you continued to put thousands of hours of work into FPP when you knew people were selling hardware to run with it?

Most work done on FPP is not directly related to these two channel outputs.  Based on our stats, 75% of FPP instances are not used as a controller, they only used as a player, either a player/master or as a remote player sending data to an external controller.  We spend a huge amount of time coding features which are part of the core of FPP and benefit all users.  I work on the project to help my display and to help others.  I think that maybe a couple hundred people per night average see my display, but I get the joy of knowing that my efforts coding FPP are "seen" by hundreds of thousands of people on all the displays running FPP around the world.  That is a big reason why I do this.  I don't do this so that other people can make money off of my efforts while simultaneously pulling away users/customers who do support FPP development by buying capes which directly benefit developers (ie, the PiCap and Kulp capes).  FPP gets minimal donations compared to the effort the development team (ie, more than just Dan and I) put into the project, this is partially because we have never promoted it.  We have a link at the top of the forum way up there on the right ^^^^ but haven't pushed for donations.  A lot of people have told us recently that they want to donate but couldn't find out how.  This is partially due to the fact that fewer and fewer people actually use the forums these days so a lot never saw the link up there.  So, in FPP v6, we're also adding a donate button in FPP for the 95+% of people running FPP who are not affected at all by this announcement (including the 75% of people who aren't using FPP as a controller).

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: breese on May 31, 2022, 04:01:30 PM
Being my first year actually doing this hobby I discovered this site and a few others.
After doing a lot of research, asking questions, and watching videos it was a clear choice to use FPP.
I started a plan, made a budget (from my Hobby Only monies), and went to work learning as much as I can (and have a long way to go), taking the advice of others (here and other places), built a list, and started BUYING!
OMG have I been buying.... I have however limited myself to not buying something not in my plans.

Even with my limited budget, in April  (or this month, don't remember) I donated $50 to the site. Sure, its not a lot.
At the same time it shows effort by me to help even a little, sends even a Little THANK YOU to the developers, and I feel well worth the money from my budget.

As a beta tester for a few other projects, I know what these Talented People go through.
I have even given a few programmers a tough time now and again Yet I still respect what they can do and I Cannot....

Whats my point to this Topic???
Read the info supplied by them. If there are questions, they will answer them (proven from all the posts so far).
Understand they they are working hard (not just the coding) to keep this moving forward and make it better than its ever been.
I am Very Sure this has been a Very Hard and long drawn out decision. At the same time it appears that those involved made some clear (and from I see), very simple decisions.

As soon as I know I have the display I planned for This Year completed and there is still money in the budget, I Will Be Donating Again....

"When was the last time you Donated?"



Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ugee on May 31, 2022, 08:08:18 PM
I just upgraded one of my Pis to the version 6 beta to test, so far looks pretty good, but missing some of the features from the 5.5 version, I think you already have this set to implement as you progress on this new version.  I also have 4 pcb coming in to build them myself (no resale) and I will apply for the DIY licensing when needed.  I just want to know if the network will work with FPP version 6 and 5.5 on the same network? With like a Player being 6 and the remotes being 5.5.

I also have some Holiday Coro AlphaPix Flex controllers, but from what I can tell it will not affect these controllers.

BTW I use no Hats on my Pis - Colorlight Cards.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on May 31, 2022, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: Ugee on May 31, 2022, 08:08:18 PMbut missing some of the features from the 5.5 version,
What is missing? There shouldn't be anything missing.
Quote from: Ugee on May 31, 2022, 08:08:18 PMI just want to know if the network will work with FPP version 6 and 5.5 on the same network?

Yes it will
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on May 31, 2022, 10:34:52 PM
Just for reference, the link below to a github ticket contains a working list of all the other changes which have gone into FPP v6.0 and we are still working on adding/updating/bugfixing as we get closer to the release.

FPP v6.0 ChangeLog (https://github.com/FalconChristmas/fpp/issues/1236)

One of our goals for FPP v6 was to focus on stability and if you look at the list of bugfixes, you'll see we spent quite a bit of time tracking down and fixing issues, even dating back to December when some of us were running the master code branch on our production setups and fixing issues as we encountered them.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 01:12:36 AM
Quote from: Kensington Graves on May 31, 2022, 07:37:30 AM
QuoteWhy have you continued to put thousands of hours of work into FPP when you knew people were selling hardware to run with it?
Honestly, does it matter?
I do think it does matters for people to understand Chris and Dan's thought process behind making and implementing licencing.

People are are obviously annoyed by this licence implementation. That was basically expected.
Subsequently, People gather judgement on how they feel towards the people who implemented this. We're already seeing this in this thread!

My concerns is the 'Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt ' into what we do not know for future implementations.
If I want to feel comfortable buying or recommending a cape/FPP controller into the future, I want to know more about the people behind this.
I do not know what Chris/Dan might do in the future. Chris/Dan might not even know what decision they would make about this in the future.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 31, 2022, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on May 31, 2022, 04:37:10 AMI apologise for how blunt this sounds.  To be very clear: You do a tremendous job and I am not implying that you should walk away from the project.
An honest answer please from CaptainMurdoch & dkulp:
Why have you continued to put thousands of hours of work into FPP when you knew people were selling hardware to run with it?

Most work done on FPP is not directly related to these two channel outputs.  Based on our stats, 75% of FPP instances are not used as a controller, they only used as a player, either a player/master or as a remote player sending data to an external controller.  We spend a huge amount of time coding features which are part of the core of FPP and benefit all users.  I work on the project to help my display and to help others.  I think that maybe a couple hundred people per night average see my display, but I get the joy of knowing that my efforts coding FPP are "seen" by hundreds of thousands of people on all the displays running FPP around the world.  That is a big reason why I do this.  I don't do this so that other people can make money off of my efforts while simultaneously pulling away users/customers who do support FPP development by buying capes which directly benefit developers (ie, the PiCap and Kulp capes).  FPP gets minimal donations compared to the effort the development team (ie, more than just Dan and I) put into the project, this is partially because we have never promoted it.  We have a link at the top of the forum way up there on the right ^^^^ but haven't pushed for donations.  A lot of people have told us recently that they want to donate but couldn't find out how.  This is partially due to the fact that fewer and fewer people actually use the forums these days so a lot never saw the link up there.  So, in FPP v6, we're also adding a donate button in FPP for the 95+% of people running FPP who are not affected at all by this announcement (including the 75% of people who aren't using FPP as a controller).


Thankyou for replying back Chris.
I am pleased you do all this for the community, and that is including me in the 95% section.


I just have this bug in the background about the future on this. Such as someone influencing your decisions on 'paid' aspects of FPP.
Everyone can vow to/not to an action. But things happen in the future. 
There might be something that Dan and/or yourself think is a great/nessercery idea and implementation backfires.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on June 01, 2022, 08:41:45 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 01:37:54 AMI just have this bug in the background about the future on this. Such as someone influencing your decisions on 'paid' aspects of FPP.
Everyone can vow to/not to an action. But things happen in the future. 
There might be something that Dan and/or yourself think is a great/nessercery idea and implementation backfires.
That is a valid concern, but the same concern can be about xLights or any other free software that is on the market. You can speculate, be worried, etc. but will never know until it happens. We just need to trust the developers with their word, but ultimately it is their choice in the direction things go. 
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 03:43:45 PM
Quote from: Poporacer on June 01, 2022, 08:41:45 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 01:37:54 AMI just have this bug in the background about the future on this. Such as someone influencing your decisions on 'paid' aspects of FPP.
Everyone can vow to/not to an action. But things happen in the future.
There might be something that Dan and/or yourself think is a great/nessercery idea and implementation backfires.
We just need to trust the developers with their word, but ultimately it is their choice in the direction things go.
True.
But now payment is involved. This has gone past the point of no return.
The gates of what could be paid have opened up.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 01, 2022, 04:20:09 PM
Quote from: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 01:12:36 AMPeople are are obviously annoyed by this licence implementation. That was basically expected.
Subsequently, People gather judgement on how they feel towards the people who implemented this. We're already seeing this in this thread!

My concerns is the 'Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt ' into what we do not know for future implementations.
If I want to feel comfortable buying or recommending a cape/FPP controller into the future, I want to know more about the people behind this.
I do not know what Chris/Dan might do in the future. Chris/Dan might not even know what decision they would make about this in the future.

I think you need to prefix the word 'people' in some of your statements with the word(s) 'some' or 'a few'.  The people who have been most vocal about the issue have mainly been talking about things they did not fully understand at the time.  The FAQ is pretty clear what is and is not affected by this, including talking about parts of FPP and capes.  It has been stated multiple times that the core of FPP is GPL/LGPL and even if we wanted to, there isn't anything we can do to take that away without getting permission from 10-15 other developers who have had their hands in that code and even then it would only be going forward because old versions of the code are and always will be GPL.  The same is true for the main libfpp.so library, the v5.5 version is GPL, but in FPP v6, libfpp.so is LGPL because we received permission from the group to relicense it to make it more open.  There are other parts of FPP which have only been touched by Dan and I, but we do not have a desire to change things in the player portion of FPP and want to keep it 100% open. This whole issue is about the controller portion of FPP, the part that allows FPP to talk directly to pixels.  The part of FPP that allows it to replace a $250 controller with a physical processor on board to talk to the pixels, and the part of FPP which is helping support the development of the rest of FPP by bringing in some $$ to developers who sell capes using the software.  Some might say that we should have closed-source the controller portion to begin with, but that would have left out all the DIY users which we fully support since we are DIY guys ourselves.

You would have the same concerns or comfort level whether software was open or closed or fully commercial.  Businesses go under, sunset software, raise their prices, remove features, and have the audacity to charge for upgrades. :)  Open Source developers give out free software, free upgrades, free support, but also sometimes move on to other projects or stop just stop developing when they lose interest or run out of time.  If the later part weren't the case, we'd have 15-20 people making regular commits to FPP, but instead we have a small group of a few people who are developing continuing to push the project forward.  There were a few years where my contributions were lower because I had other outside obligations.  Dan stepped in and was the main force keeping FPP going forward during that time when I was unable to devote the same hours to the project that I had been able to in the early days.  In recent years, I have been able to devote more time (normally at the expense of working on my own lighting display).  This is part of the reason we added a 'hit by a bus' clause in the non-GPL licensing to make sure the project can continue if both of us were to go AWOL.

Quote from: Mark_M on June 01, 2022, 01:37:54 AMI just have this bug in the background about the future on this. Such as someone influencing your decisions on 'paid' aspects of FPP.
Everyone can vow to/not to an action. But things happen in the future.
There might be something that Dan and/or yourself think is a great/nessercery idea and implementation backfires.

FPP would be missing some major features if it weren't for "someone influencing" the development of the project.  I have implemented several large features over the years which were privately sponsored by a donation from someone.  I'm not positive, but I think Dan has probably done the same.  That is part of what keeps Open Source going, along with developers scratching their own itches.  There are always tradeoffs, there probably were a few bugs that had to wait a little longer to get fixed because I was working on an enhancement for a particular user, but in the long run FPP and a large number of users benefited due to one users contribution.  I am definitely not saying there is no possibility of some other new paid portion of FPP, and I won't promise anything.  What we can do is reiterate the fact that the core of FPP can not go private due to licensing.  We would also rather keep a consolidated product that might have some paid/enhanced functionality than split the product and spend our time focused on the 'pay' version or having to keep two versions in sync and decide what gets backported to the free version.  In the future, you could potentially see additional new licensed channel outputs if we add support for more pixel protocols or there could be the concept of paid plugins if that made sense.  There are a large number of Open Source projects out there that are in part supported by paid development or paid features.  Just look at Linux in general.  If companies like Redhat, Canonical, etc. were not selling Linux and supporting it, Linux would not be where it is today.  The whole WordPress ecosystem is built on plugins which normally have a free version and a paid enhanced version.

I feel I am repeating myself so I'll stop.  We realize that some users aren't happy with the idea, but we also believe that is a small group since only a small group is truly affected other than requiring a few minutes of their time to request/redeem a voucher.  This belief is based on the stats we get out of the opt-in stats collection that FPP does which includes a sampling of over 9500 FPP instances.  We thought long and hard about our possible options and felt this solution was better than forking the project, or starting to add fully closed-source features, or locking out 3rd party vendors totally.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ugee on June 01, 2022, 05:21:39 PM
Quote from: Poporacer on May 31, 2022, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: Ugee on May 31, 2022, 08:08:18 PMbut missing some of the features from the 5.5 version,
What is missing? There shouldn't be anything missing.
Quote from: Ugee on May 31, 2022, 08:08:18 PMI just want to know if the network will work with FPP version 6 and 5.5 on the same network?

Yes it will

Sorry for the subject change.
FPP 5.5 Multisync and upper right status information.

FPP 6 ßeta Multisync not working and the status information is missing. So far does not look like they work together.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 01, 2022, 09:44:35 PM
Quote from: Ugee on June 01, 2022, 05:21:39 PMFPP 5.5 Multisync and upper right status information.

FPP 6 ßeta Multisync not working and the status information is missing. So far does not look like they work together.

I think the fppd daemon isn't running or is hung in the second screenshot, that's why the system isn't discovered on the first system.  You can tell the deamon isn't running because the header is missing most of its information.  Are you running the beta-1 SD or fppos image?

The MultiSync protocol hasn't changed in quite a while, so FPP v5.x and v6.x systems should be able to sync together without issue.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: bloojoop on June 02, 2022, 12:20:53 AM
@Ugee , as Chris mentioned, your fppd daemon is not running in that second image (the v6 beta image).  If you upgraded via fppos, then that would explain it as there is currently an issue with a version of an underlying library difference between Buster and Bullseye operating system...  I can say that if you would do a second fppos update using the same fppos file, then this should correct this condition by properly running the part2 upgrade script. 
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ugee on June 02, 2022, 12:28:08 PM
Well the version is  v6.x-master-335-gea212372, shows FPPD is running, I will just sit back and await updates.
New branch has been released and all has cleared up and working properly.
   6.x-master-346-g62dce4fe
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on June 03, 2022, 04:12:59 AM


This is where I am getting the 'fear, uncertainty and doubt' from. "People behind it" [licencing] is yourself and Dan.


It is great that you enjoy developing on FPP for the smiles that it brings out. But licencing implementation for 5%...?

This is why I have asked you about your feelings towards the project.
I acknowledge there is annoyance felt because vendors are selling capes that only work because of your effort. I would feel the same way of being 'taken advantage of'.
On the other hand; this is a lot of work to implement licencing for soo little in the grand scheme.


Why is 5% worth hugging onto? Does it touch deeply enough that you cannot let go?
I am asking about your decision making for deciding upon licencing.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on June 03, 2022, 07:06:03 AM
I can't speak for Dan or Chris but have thought about this quite a bit. I have given 1000s of hours myself helping people out with the only reward knowing that I helped someone put a smile on a kid's face and joy in a family's heart. I volunteered to write the FPP manual and have spentl 1000s hours just on the manual (far less than Dan or Chris have dedicated to FPP) and if someone were to start monetizing the Manual somehow, I would fight tooth and nail and spend whatever amount of time I could to recoup some of my efforts. Now if that same person had made significant contributions to the manual, then I wouldn't care. It is about principle and sometimes principles weigh heavily on a person. In my real life I had a similar situation with my employer, I even sued them and won knowing I was sueing the people that were in the process of hiring me for my dream job. I spent a couple hundred hours preparing my case. And how much money was I suing for? $100 and a certificate of recognition. Obviously I didn't get the job. It was about the principle to me. if these vendors had done the right thing and contributed significantly, then we wouldn't be in this position. Point your concerns at the people that caused this, not the developers
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 03, 2022, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on June 03, 2022, 04:12:59 AMWhy is 5% worth hugging onto? Does it touch deeply enough that you cannot let go?
I am asking about your decision making for deciding upon licencing.

(sarcasm mode on)
If 5% doesn't bother you too much, I will look forward to you donating 5% of your yearly income to FPP development. :)
(sarcasm mode off)

Seriously though, it may be 5% today, but in a year who is to say it couldn't be 25% or 50%?  The number of 3rd party vendors selling capes has about doubled over the past couple years, possibly partially due to COVID and supply chain issues, but also due to the fact that there was no FPP "cost" involved for a vendor to start selling a cape and making money off FPP siphoning off supporting users.  The vendors don't have to support the software for their "controller", they don't enhance it or make bug fixes, they just make a profit off of it.  There are about 20 vendors selling FPP based capes currently and if each one even siphoned off just 1% of sales, that is 20%.
 If they each siphoned off 2% of sales, that's 40%.  When I added support for driving 2 strings of pixels off the Pi and David created the PiCap, within a few years we saw a large number of vendors start selling PiCap clones, and I believe all are undercutting the PiCap price by dropping functionality which further siphons off PiCap sales.  We have no idea of the total number of sales because the PiCap/PiHat stats aren't broken out in the fppstats data, but they will be starting with FPP v6 since they will use a virtual EEPROM.  I personally did not want the same thing to happen with the new DPIPixels output which can support 24 strings of pixels on the Pi and will come along with other features that the 2-string PiCap/PiHat output doesn't support.

We spend a huge amount of time each year keeping FPP current on the latest stable Raspberry Pi OS and BeagleBone Debian.  That is just to keep the system up to date, working on the latest hardware, secure, etc. and doesn't include all the FPP enhancements we add all the time.  For a list of the changes in FPP, you can always look at the changelog ticket which I try to keep up to date.

https://github.com/FalconChristmas/fpp/issues/1236 (https://github.com/FalconChristmas/fpp/issues/1236)

I don't know of any other controller vendor who spends as much time enhancing their firmware as we do enhancing the FPP software that drives these cape "controllers". With physical controllers, it is often the case that the older hardware doesn't support the new features because the processor can't handle the workload.  With FPP, the same Pi or BeagleBone that could drive pixels 6-7 years ago can drive them now but with an enhanced feature set.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 03, 2022, 11:27:54 PM
Couldn't the same argument be made for the sequencing software (Vixen or xLights)?  Isn't this entire "cottage industry" equally based on that free software, as well?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 01:57:44 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 03, 2022, 11:27:54 PMCouldn't the same argument be made for the sequencing software (Vixen or xLights)?  Isn't this entire "cottage industry" equally based on that free software, as well?
What xLights does and how the developers feel is up to them, I probably have my name on less than 100 lines of xLights code so I don't have much say there.

I will say that I think the scenario is a bit different because the xLights developers didn't create features and start selling sequences using those features to support xLights development then have a group of other sequence sellers pop up and do the same thing, it was almost the other way around if I recall correctly.  I know that Sean's wife sells sequences but I don't think she was first and I don't know that Keith, Gil, Dan, or the other primary developers are selling sequences either.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on June 04, 2022, 02:44:20 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 03, 2022, 10:54:30 AM
  • Seriously though, it may be 5% today, but in a year who is to say it couldn't be 25% or 50%?
  • The number of 3rd party vendors selling capes has about doubled over the past couple years.
  • but also due to the fact that there was no FPP "cost" involved for a vendor to start selling a cape.
I consider this statement to be future planning for when it is worthwhile (E.g. more than 20% of usage) or it puts a hurdle so there is fewer capes coming out.

This settles some concerns I have for future of FPP, because this tells me your refined decision making is 'not just for now, it is for the future of FPP'. Which is great to hear.

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 03, 2022, 10:54:30 AM(sarcasm mode on)

If 5% doesn't bother you too much, I will look forward to you donating 5% of your yearly income to FPP development. :)
(sarcasm mode off)
I am sorry, but this triggers mixed messages for me.
You have made a joke that 5% is a considerable amount?

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 03, 2022, 10:54:30 AMWe spend a huge amount of time each year keeping FPP current on the latest stable Raspberry Pi OS and BeagleBone Debian.  That is just to keep the system up to date, working on the latest hardware, secure, etc. and doesn't include all the FPP enhancements we add all the time.
Yes, I understand the purposes behind licencing. You have explained this very clearly in the thread.


My interests in this discussion is your thought process and influence on what bought you to realise your work was being used without compensation and your immediate reaction to the thought (Example; feeling(s) of: betrayal, anxiousness, sadness, anger).
Then the thought process you went through when weighing each side of the mental argument. Even before suggesting it to Dan (or vice-versa if Dan initially thought of licencing idea).

Someone quoted my reply earlier and said 'why does it matter?'.
Transparency and giving the community confidence is my response. Until you discuss an idea with someone, there is self-consciousness in any idea.
This is what we have all seen everywhere in life and we just take the refined answer given.


To make my question consolidated so we are not running in circles;
If I were to ask the question "Why?" and you could not answer with anything related to FPP. Only your own personal thoughts/beliefs. What would your answer be?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Mark_M on June 04, 2022, 02:47:00 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on June 04, 2022, 02:44:20 AMEven before suggesting it to Dan (or vice-versa if Dan initially thought of licencing idea).
A very good point I have forgotten to ask and apologies.

I have only been responding to you on these questions @CaptainMurdoch. Could you please participate @dkulp?  :)
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: pixelpuppy on June 04, 2022, 03:19:53 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 03, 2022, 11:27:54 PMCouldn't the same argument be made for the sequencing software (Vixen or xLights)? 
Not quite.  (although I do believe that anyone selling xLights sequences should be sending a portion of all sales to xLights development)

I think what many people don't realize is the BBB and RPi-based "capes" (by themselves they are not true "controllers") require FPP to function.  These capes, caps, and hats are simple circuits with no onboard intelligence.  All the brains to make these devices work are in FPP.  Without FPP software loaded on these devices, they would be absolutely worthless.

Contrast that to intelligent controllers like Falcon F16/F48, HinkPix, AlphaPix, and SanDevices.  They have onboard processors with their own custom software that is written by those controller developers.  The cost of that software development is part of the price you pay for those boards.

When you buy a 3rd-party BBB or RPi cape, none of what you pay is going toward the development of the software that is needed for the board to function.  You are paying for a very simple circuit board with less than a few 100 hours of time (if even that much).  However, the software is very complex, taking 1,000's of hours to develop, and is continually being developed on an ongoing basis.  Whereas the simple circuit board is designed once and simply replicated with no investment in the software that is absolutely required for those boards to function.

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:24:31 AM
Quote from: pixelpuppy on June 04, 2022, 03:19:53 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 03, 2022, 11:27:54 PMCouldn't the same argument be made for the sequencing software (Vixen or xLights)? 
All the brains to make these devices work are in FPP.  Without FPP software loaded on these devices, they would be absolutely worthless.


I think what I'm trying to get at, is that without the sequencing software, wouldn't FPP be worthless?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:25:02 AM
Quote from: pixelpuppy on June 04, 2022, 03:19:53 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 03, 2022, 11:27:54 PMCouldn't the same argument be made for the sequencing software (Vixen or xLights)? 
All the brains to make these devices work are in FPP.  Without FPP software loaded on these devices, they would be absolutely worthless.


I think what I'm trying to get at, is that without the sequencing software, wouldn't FPP be worthless?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:24:31 AMI think what I'm trying to get at, is that without the sequencing software, wouldn't FPP be worthless?

There are lots of sequencers that work with FPP.  There is only one FPP software that drives these cape "controllers".
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: pixelpuppy on June 04, 2022, 03:19:53 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 03, 2022, 11:27:54 PMCouldn't the same argument be made for the sequencing software (Vixen or xLights)? 
Not quite.  (although I do believe that anyone selling xLights sequences should be sending a portion of all sales to xLights development)

I think what many people don't realize is the BBB and RPi-based "capes" (by themselves they are not true "controllers") require FPP to function.  These capes, caps, and hats are simple circuits with no onboard intelligence.  All the brains to make these devices work are in FPP.  Without FPP software loaded on these devices, they would be absolutely worthless.

Contrast that to intelligent controllers like Falcon F16/F48, HinkPix, AlphaPix, and SanDevices.  They have onboard processors with their own custom software that is written by those controller developers.  The cost of that software development is part of the price you pay for those boards.

When you buy a 3rd-party BBB or RPi cape, none of what you pay is going toward the development of the software that is needed for the board to function.  You are paying for a very simple circuit board with less than a few 100 hours of time (if even that much).  However, the software is very complex, taking 1,000's of hours to develop, and is continually being developed on an ongoing basis.  Whereas the simple circuit board is designed once and simply replicated with no investment in the software that is absolutely required for those boards to function.
Also, I think that everyone recognizes that controllers/capes require FPP to function--everyone recognizes that you can't just slap the capes onto a blank BBB/Pi and expect anything to happen.

Everyone also understands that the FPP software is very complex and has taken 1,000s of hours to develop, maintain and improve (nobody is denying that fact).  But that's also a true statement for Vixen/xLights.  Should we anticipate that they will want to add extra fees for new enhancements they develop?

My confusion is why "simple circuit boards" are a "bad" thing?  I've used an "expensive/intelligent" controller board(s) and really found that 1) I've seen no benefit over a "simple" circuit board, and 2) I found them much more complicated to operate.

Part of this hobby is all about finding the most inexpensive/cost-effective path to put on a show (after all, I don't think any of us make any money off our shows--especially for all the time AND costs we sink, as well).  People are constantly searching for the least expensive pixels, props AND controllers--that can suitably get the job done.

I don't think anyone is denying that the software developers should be receiving some sort of monetary reward.  And unfortunately (?) some people ARE making a profit off this hobby--but it's not just those people that are making controllers...but those that are selling the props, LEDs, sequences, and countless other gadgets that go into this hobby.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:24:31 AMI think what I'm trying to get at, is that without the sequencing software, wouldn't FPP be worthless?

There are lots of sequencers that work with FPP.  There is only one FPP software that drives these cape "controllers".
But the two main ones (xLights and Vixen) have released numerous updates/improvements without any fees or license.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 11:21:45 AM
Quote from: Mark_M on June 04, 2022, 02:47:00 AMI have only been responding to you on these questions @CaptainMurdoch. Could you please participate @dkulp?  :)

Dan can step in, and he has posted both here and on FaceBook, but I will reiterate the statement made previously that whenever he does, there are people that chime in and say that he is just trying to protect his business and feel that whatever he says is tainted by that.  This is one of the reasons I have tried to be front and center on this and driving it forward.  This wasn't a one-person decision even though I'm doing most of the posting on the topic.  This is also part of the reason that we wanted the Falcon Player, LLC entity to be separate from KulpLights.com and PixelController.com rather than selling license keys through either of those entities.

If Dan was just concerned about protecting his cape business, there are things that he could have done a long time ago to make it so that the new code he wrote was not open, but that would have locked out the DIY community which we do not want to do.  Those same things could be done now to lock out all 3rd party vendors, but that is not what we want to do, because we do see some value in having choice.

Anyway, I won't answer for him, but I will stick up for him. :)

Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:08:41 AMBut the two main ones (xLights and Vixen) have released numerous updates/improvements without any fees or license.

OK, what's your point?  Just because they did something we have to or just because they didn't then we can't?  Again, xLights and Vixen don't have 3rd party vendors siphoning off their supporting 'customers' (ie, those who buy capes that directly support FPP developers).

Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:04:28 AMBut that's also a true statement for Vixen/xLights.   Should we anticipate that they will want to add extra fees for new enhancements they develop?

Thats up to them to decide.

Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:04:28 AMAnd unfortunately (?) some people ARE making a profit off this hobby--but it's not just those people that are making controllers...but those that are selling the props, LEDs, sequences, and countless other gadgets that go into this hobby.

We aren't against people making money off the hobby, people should get something for their time in creating something.  What I am against is people essentially taking money out of developers' pockets by siphoning off supporting users and sometimes by undercutting capes we are selling and without supporting FPP development.  They sold the cape, they made the money, but we have to support the usage of the cape because we wrote the software???
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:45:38 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 11:00:52 AM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:24:31 AMI think what I'm trying to get at, is that without the sequencing software, wouldn't FPP be worthless?

There are lots of sequencers that work with FPP.  There is only one FPP software that drives these cape "controllers".
But the two main ones (xLights and Vixen) have released numerous updates/improvements without any fees or license.
"Taking money and siphoning users"?!

These inexpensive capes are NOT making any profit—that's why they are so inexpensive.

Users aren't being siphoned from FPP by these inexpensive capes.  If anything, they're providing a convenient entry-point for new users to get their feet wet.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: jnealand on June 04, 2022, 01:43:15 PM
I see a lot of sour grapes here.  Folks should total up their full investment in dollars in their own light show and they will see that their objecting to something that does not even equal rounding error IMHO.

I've donated more than any license would cost me so I am baffled that folks want to argue over a few dollars.  I probably have more money tied up in extra pigtails and fuses than what a license would cost in order to use a cheap board.  sigh
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: jnealand on June 04, 2022, 01:43:15 PMI see a lot of sour grapes here.  Folks should total up their full investment in dollars in their own light show and they will see that their objecting to something that does not even equal rounding error IMHO.

I've donated more than any license would cost me so I am baffled that folks want to argue over a few dollars.  I probably have more money tied up in extra pigtails and fuses than what a license would cost in order to use a cheap board.  sigh
Then why only throw a license on "cheap boards" and not simply require all users to pay a (nominal) fee?  This could be equally applied not only to FPP, but also to the sequencing software.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PM
  • Capes manufactured by 3rd party vendors must have a license key applied to support more than 50 pixels per output and to enable Smart Receiver functionality.

I thought the license was for the use of the new DPIPixel output (and not the prior RPIWS281x output).  This bullet seems to suggest that the license is only based on the number of pixels per output (regardless of the protocol).

Can you clarify what "smart receiver functionality" is?

My understanding (so far), is that the current generic 2-port PiCapes currently use the RPIWS281x protocol.  Will these same capes be able to ALSO use the DPIPixel output in v6.0 (or can they now currently use either)?  And IF these capes use the DPI protocol, then this is where a license is needed?

In addition, new capes are being released that can now support more than 2-ports.  Any idea when these will be available, and what the price-point is?

I'm only asking because I've been spending a lot of time (and $$) trying to "hack" the current 2-port PiCapes into something with more outputs (and the "hack" has been successful).  However, it appears that this new/better path has been opened up.  I'm just trying to understand when/how/where this changes my current plans (after all, it is already June...).
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 05:31:05 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PM
  • Capes manufactured by 3rd party vendors must have a license key applied to support more than 50 pixels per output and to enable Smart Receiver functionality.

I thought the license was for the use of the new DPIPixel output (and not the prior RPIWS281x output).  This bullet seems to suggest that the license is only based on the number of pixels per output (regardless of the protocol).

Can you clarify what "smart receiver functionality" is?

That bullet point possibly could have been a little clearer but you are also quoting it out of contexts. The context of the post is related to the multi-string pixel outputs BBB48String and DPIPixels.  You are correct that the old 2-string RPIWS281X channel output driver is not affected and will continue to function as it always has.

This can be explained better by other threads and videos but in essence Smart receivers allow you to put multiple differential receivers on a single Cat-5 run.  With the v2 protocol, you can have up to 6 smart receivers in a single chain so that would be 24 strings of pixels connected to the receivers which are using 4 physical outputs on the controller.  If you want more info there are lots of better explanations that will answer more questions you may have so I won't try to explain more.  FPP supports both dumb and smart receivers that are compatible with controllers from PixelController.com.

David is working on a 24-port DPIPixels cape which should have 16 logs string ports and two quad differential RJ45 connectors for smart/dumb receivers.  The board will also have an expansion header to allow string or differential boards from PixelController.com to be attached.  I can't speak to timing.  David is doing things like trying to make sure there aren't any supply issues, making sure the Pi power converted can handle the Pi 4 power, etc..  We don't want to put a board out there and have to do a redesign of certain components in 3 months due to supply or other issues.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 05:46:20 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:45:38 AM"Taking money and siphoning users"?!

These inexpensive capes are NOT making any profit—that's why they are so inexpensive.

Siphoning users/customers means users buying cheaper capes from 3rd party vendors which do not support FPP instead of buying a cape that does support FPP development.  Both capes/users are using FPP but the second purchase is supporting FPP development while the first is not.

Regarding making money selling capes, I doubt all 8-10 vendors selling 2-string Pi capes are selling them at-cost, I doubt any are doing that, so yes, I think they are selling something to make money off it, even if it is only $3-5 per cape.  There isn't much profit built into the official PiCap either because it is a small 2-output cape.

Regarding a cheap entry to the market, the Pi pixel cape is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the pixels and pixel power supplies that are driven by the cape.  And the old RPiWS281X output still works as-is so the whole discussion about the 2-output capes doesn't really matter much.  The 24-output DPIPixels and 48-output BBB48String are the only affected outputs and use the more expensive capes with more vendor profit.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 05:31:05 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 02:47:35 PM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PM
  • Capes manufactured by 3rd party vendors must have a license key applied to support more than 50 pixels per output and to enable Smart Receiver functionality.

I thought the license was for the use of the new DPIPixel output (and not the prior RPIWS281x output).  This bullet seems to suggest that the license is only based on the number of pixels per output (regardless of the protocol).

Can you clarify what "smart receiver functionality" is?

That bullet point possibly could have been a little clearer but you are also quoting it out of contexts. The context of the post is related to the multi-string pixel outputs BBB48String and DPIPixels.  You are correct that the old 2-string RPIWS281X channel output driver is not affected and will continue to function as it always has.

This can be explained better by other threads and videos but in essence Smart receivers allow you to put multiple differential receivers on a single Cat-5 run.  With the v2 protocol, you can have up to 6 smart receivers in a single chain so that would be 24 strings of pixels connected to the receivers which are using 4 physical outputs on the controller.  If you want more info there are lots of better explanations that will answer more questions you may have so I won't try to explain more.  FPP supports both dumb and smart receivers that are compatible with controllers from PixelController.com.

David is working on a 24-port DPIPixels cape which should have 16 logs string ports and two quad differential RJ45 connectors for smart/dumb receivers.  The board will also have an expansion header to allow string or differential boards from PixelController.com to be attached.  I can't speak to timing.  David is doing things like trying to make sure there aren't any supply issues, making sure the Pi power converted can handle the Pi 4 power, etc..  We don't want to put a board out there and have to do a redesign of certain components in 3 months due to supply or other issues.
So if a PiCape is only being used to drive pixels (various wireless "remotes" connected to "main"), then the smart receiver functionality is irrelevant?

Are you saying that the "50+ pixel output" doesn't really mean anything (ie., <50 pixels with the DPIPixel output will still need the license)?

This is one reason why I've always preferred these "knock-off/reduced-functionality" clones:  I don't need all the added bells-and-whistles.  I've never needed receivers, expansion headers, DMX port(s), RTC and all the various options that exist on the more expensive board.  For me, I just need a good reliable screwdriver (to simply connect LEDs strands too), not a Swiss-Army knife (that can do everything). Especially since I run about 10 PiCapes in my show...I really don't want to pay for hardware that I have no use for.  Granted, I'm likely a small niche--but it's a niche that exists, nonetheless.

From what I'm gathering elsewhere, even the most bare-bone basic PiCape clone will be able to use the DPIPixel output with the v6 FPP and license (to drive the two outputs).  I'm presuming that upcoming "bare-bone basic" PiCapes will retain the same basic schematic--with just more pins exposed for the added outputs?  And those WILL require the license.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 04, 2022, 06:47:33 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 05:51:59 PMSo if a PiCape is only being used to drive pixels (various wireless "remotes" connected to "main"), then the smart receiver functionality is irrelevant?

Yes, if all of your pixels are directly attached then you don't need or care about smart receivers.  They do let you run lots of scattered small props hundreds of feet away from the main controller with only a Cat-5 connecting them, so they do have their use, but everyone has different preferences whether it is to put controllers everywhere, use remote smart/dumb receivers, or run pixels direct-attached 50-60 feet away from a controller.

Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 05:51:59 PMAre you saying that the "50+ pixel output" doesn't really mean anything (ie., <50 pixels with the DPIPixel output will still need the license)?

The way DPIPixels is setup now, it does require a license to go over 50 pixels no matter how many outputs/ports are in use.  The license covers the number of ports that can go over 50 and it starts with the first port on the board, you don't currently get to choose which ports although we are considering adding that functionality or just making it auto-detect.  The hardest part about that would be the UI logic, it would be trivial to do it in the backend channel output code.  The main reason for switching to DPIPixels on a 2-string cape would be to get back the internal audio which doesn't work with the older RPIWS281X driver.  It never made sense to use dumb receivers with a 2-port Pi cape since you could just put the Pi where the dumb receiver was.  It makes a little more sense with smart receivers since you could string 6 smart receivers off a single 2-port Pi, but there are no Pi capes which have RJ45 differential pixel outputs on them.  The new 24-port cape will have differential outputs on it to support remote smart/dumb receivers.

Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 05:51:59 PMThis is one reason why I've always preferred these "knock-off/reduced-functionality" clones:  I don't need all the added bells-and-whistles.  I've never needed receivers, expansion headers, DMX port(s), RTC and all the various options that exist on the more expensive board.  For me, I just need a good reliable screwdriver (to simply connect LEDs strands too), not a Swiss-Army knife (that can do everything). Especially since I run about 10 PiCapes in my show...I really don't want to pay for hardware that I have no use for.  Granted, I'm likely a small niche--but it's a niche that exists, nonetheless.

I definitely understand it and it is also part of why we never cut off those boards when we easily could have by making some changes.  The main point about those is for people to realize that a lot of those boards don't support FPP development at all.

Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 05:51:59 PMFrom what I'm gathering elsewhere, even the most bare-bone basic PiCape clone will be able to use the DPIPixel output with the v6 FPP and license (to drive the two outputs).  I'm presuming that upcoming "bare-bone basic" PiCapes will retain the same basic schematic--with just more pins exposed for the added outputs?  And those WILL require the license.

The way FPP 6 will (currently) work is that the default for a 2-output cape is to use the old code and disable onboard audio.  This means that all existing 2-output capes will continue to work as-is.  The user will also have the choice of buying a 2-output $5 key and switching to the new DPIPixels output code which will allow the onboard audio to be re-enabled and saving the user from having to buy a $10 USB sound card if they need audio on that controller.  If the user doesn't need audio, they don't need to switch to DPIPixels for a 2-output cape.  Anything over 2 outputs on the Pi will require DPIPixels and a key since the old code only supports 2 outputs.

We already have a few users who have created DPIPixels based capes which support more than 2 outputs.  The first one has 4 string outputs with power, etc. the second has 24 outputs but is more bare-bones with just pixel data outputs and no string power capabilities, and I think the third had 16 string plus 2 quad differential if I recall correctly.  This is all before FPP v6 is even out.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:06:08 PM
Is the process outlined for "relinking" the Cape (which has the license in the physical EEPROM) to the actual Pi?

It's pretty common (during testing and/or mid-show if there's any issue) to simply swap in a new Pi and be up-and-running in a matter of seconds.  However, it appears that this will no longer be the case (and that the Cape and the Pi are essentially "locked" together)?  What about swapping in/out uSD cards?

For "virtual" EEPROM, is the license stored on the uSD?  Presumable, the process will be slightly different?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, &amp; Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 05, 2022, 02:03:34 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 08:06:08 PMIs the process outlined for "relinking" the Cape (which has the license in the physical EEPROM) to the actual Pi?

It's pretty common (during testing and/or mid-show if there's any issue) to simply swap in a new Pi and be up-and-running in a matter of seconds.  However, it appears that this will no longer be the case (and that the Cape and the Pi are essentially "locked" together)?  What about swapping in/out uSD cards?

For "virtual" EEPROM, is the license stored on the uSD?  Presumable, the process will be slightly different?
If you swap Pi or BB/PB or cape with a physical EEPROM the EEPROM will need to be re-signed to pick up the new serial number on the Pi/BB/PB.

If your cape is using a virtual EEPROM as all of the current 2-string Pi hats do, the virtual EEPROM is stored in the FPP config directory on the SD card and can also be backed up and restored with the rest of the config using FPP'd Backup screen in the UI.  If you have a cape die and are using a virtual EEPROM, you can swap on a new cape and it will work since the virtual EEPROM is already signed.  If you have a Pi/BB/PB die and swap the SD card to a new system, it will need to be re-signed to pick up the new device's serial number, the same as if it were using a physical EEPROM.  We are tossing around some ideas to try to figure out how we can give a grace period in this scenario because we don't want to cause longer downtime than needed if a piece of hardware dies.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: tbone321 on June 05, 2022, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:45:38 AM"Taking money and siphoning users"?!

These inexpensive capes are NOT making any profit—that's why they are so inexpensive.

Users aren't being siphoned from FPP by these inexpensive capes.  If anything, they're providing a convenient entry-point for new users to get their feet wet.
I really don't understand your reasoning.  That is EXACTLY what they are doing.  The Pi Cap is being sold at a slight profit with that profit going toward the further development of FPP.  The people making these inexpensive capes may not be making much of a profit or in some cases none but none of that money is going toward FPP and they are taking away sales from the PICap which does add funds toward the further development of FPP.  The users are not being siphoned from FPP, they are being siphoned from the PICap.  
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Bwinter on June 05, 2022, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: tbone321 on June 05, 2022, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 04, 2022, 11:45:38 AM"Taking money and siphoning users"?!

These inexpensive capes are NOT making any profit—that's why they are so inexpensive.

Users aren't being siphoned from FPP by these inexpensive capes.  If anything, they're providing a convenient entry-point for new users to get their feet wet.
I really don't understand your reasoning.  That is EXACTLY what they are doing.  The Pi Cap is being sold at a slight profit with that profit going toward the further development of FPP.  The people making these inexpensive capes may not be making much of a profit or in some cases none but none of that money is going toward FPP and they are taking away sales from the PICap which does add funds toward the further development of FPP.  The users are not being siphoned from FPP, they are being siphoned from the PICap. 
So PiCaps are funding FPP?  What about all the other vendors who would not exist without xLights/Vixen/FPP?

I'm just not understanding why capes (both BBB and Pi) are being singled-out here, especially since it appears that capes/hats users represent a small fraction of all the FPP users (<1% of all devices, as was pointed-out earlier).
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: dkulp on June 05, 2022, 06:14:10 PM
Quote from: Bwinter on June 05, 2022, 05:47:33 PMSo PiCaps are funding FPP?

Yes. Since the very first PiCap which was sold by Falcon, 50% of all proceeds on the PiCap sales go to the FPP development team.  It's right there on pixelcontroller.com's page for the PiCap.

QuoteWhat about all the other vendors who would not exist without xLights/Vixen/FPP?

I'm just not understanding why capes (both BBB and Pi) are being singled-out here, especially since it appears that capes/hats users represent a small fraction of all the FPP users.

Because that's what we decided would work best for our situation? I hate to pull the "I'm the parent and I said so" kind of response (which usually doesn't work on my kids either), but it really does come down to that.  We had a ton of discussions about various options with various people, not just Chris and I.  We even tried to reach out to some of the vendors for thoughts.  After weighing all the various options, this is what we decided on.    SOME of the influences that went into it include things like "wanting it to remain free and open for as many people as possible", "still support the DIY community", "allow a way for vendors that do want to make a cape to do so", "what could we realistically accomplish ", etc....    There were other options that we could have implemented, some more restrictive, some less.  We could have said "F#@k it" and just walked away and FPP6 would never see the light of day.  We considered a license key for ALL pixel output capes (including PiHat's), but that would have had a much bigger impact on users.  For the most part, we were trying to strike a balance between impacts to users and a  kind of "minimal that we could live with charging users". 

Again, Capes and Hat's are, by far, the main way that FPP gets any sort of funding.  That's how things have been setup pretty much since the beginning.  First the PiHat from Falcon, then the original F16B and F4B's that Dave designed for the group buy, and then eventually into my capes.  Their purpose is to continue funding FPP development.  Should the PiHat's been more locked down years ago?  Maybe.  That's water under the bridge now, but these decisions are too try and protect the one source of funds that that project actually can count on. The donations to FPP over the past few years are a very very small fraction of what xLights gets.  I've spent more on various SBC's (Orange Pi's, NanoPi's, Libre LaPotato things, etc...) this year just to test the various ports for FPP then I have received from the FPP "donation pool" in the last 3 years combined. I personally don't care this year since the sales of my capes will cover that cost (and since it's a business, those can be considered a business R&D expense), but if I cannot sell my capes due to other vendor clones, that's no longer a possibility. 
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 07:36:17 AM
I have several pis that use a two string hat and on one of them I tried an OS upgrade to the Pi-6-beta 1 .fppos. after the upgrade I got a poor performance warning and under pixel strings in the outputs there was no way to enable a pi hat.
But the way I read things I shouldn't be affected?
I'd like to point out I very much support both Xlights and falcon and I would have loved to buy the Falcon hat but the truth of the matter the "Clone" had better options in fit my needs better. For instance the getJboard hat is small and simple and fits on a pi zero w and most times is all that's needed especially where space is a concern.
So I ask what gives..... is 6.0 not ready or have some bugs that won't allow the two output hat to work?
And maybe offer more of a variety of boards to fit people's needs so that they don't find themselves purchasing some of the "Clones".

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: dkulp on June 06, 2022, 09:03:53 AM
You MAY need to do a second fppos upgrade (to the exact same fppos file) on the Pi.  There is a bug in the fppos upgrade mechanism on FPP <=5.5 that isn't calling the correct "second stage" script.   It's fixed on the very very latest of the 5.5 branch, but going straight from any 5.x to 6.0 is likely going to not work immediately.   Unfortunately, it's a bug in the old versions so not something we can fix in the 6.0 fppos files.   We're trying to figure out if there are other options, but at this point a second fppos (which should go very quick as only a few files change) should get things into a good shape. 

On the pixel string page, there then should be a Virtual EEProm button someplace that would need to be used first to install the PiHat virtual eeprom.  Once you do that, you should be able to configure the strings like normal.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 10:37:19 AM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 07:36:17 AMSo I ask what gives..... is 6.0 not ready or have some bugs that won't allow the two output hat to work?

I just want to point out that the word "beta" or "alpha" in the release and image names indicates that v6.0 is not ready yet.  You are running beta software, it is mostly ready, but we are still working on some things and will be up until the release and beyond.  We are currently targeting a release date sometime in July.  We are doing a lot of internal testing and also have a lot of users testing even before we released the alpha and beta images.

Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 07:36:17 AMAnd maybe offer more of a variety of boards to fit people's needs so that they don't find themselves purchasing some of the "Clones".

I don't know that you will see smaller official Pi string capes like a Pi Zero version and that is part of why I wanted to make sure that we kept it open to allow other vendors to fill in the gaps.  David is working on a larger multi-string Pi cape, but I don't know how many other variations he is considering other than a PiCap v2 possibly with 4 ports instead of 2.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 11:13:49 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 10:37:19 AM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 07:36:17 AMSo I ask what gives..... is 6.0 not ready or have some bugs that won't allow the two output hat to work?

I just want to point out that the word "beta" or "alpha" in the release and image names indicates that v6.0 is not ready yet.  You are running beta software, it is mostly ready, but we are still working on some things and will be up until the release and beyond.  We are currently targeting a release date sometime in July.  We are doing a lot of internal testing and also have a lot of users testing even before we released the alpha and beta images.

Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 07:36:17 AMAnd maybe offer more of a variety of boards to fit people's needs so that they don't find themselves purchasing some of the "Clones".

I don't know that you will see smaller official Pi string capes like a Pi Zero version and that is part of why I wanted to make sure that we kept it open to allow other vendors to fill in the gaps.  David is working on a larger multi-string Pi cape, but I don't know how many other variations he is considering other than a PiCap v2 possibly with 4 ports instead of 2.
I definitely get the alpha and beta thing that's why I have a couple of my pis running on Master branch and try reporting anything that I find. This is why I also downloaded and tested the 6.0 but I was surprised that the pixel strings in the output didn't have a single thing come up in the drop-down to select from.
Seem like a pretty obvious mistake that I didn't think you guys would have let slip by. 
As far as the second part why not look at what's selling like the small boards an offer it on the pixel controller page. Who knows you may find that the things sell like hotcakes.
I own a business and I sell all kinds of stuff that I never imagined would move and would never buy myself. I know that the small boards always seem to be out of stock so either he's absolutely poor at managing things or they're moving faster than he can keep up which kind of fits with poor at managing things.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 11:26:43 AM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 11:13:49 AMAs far as the second part why not look at what's selling like the small boards an offer it on the pixel controller page. Who knows you may find that the things sell like hotcakes.
I own a business and I sell all kinds of stuff that I never imagined would move and would never buy myself. I know that the small boards always seem to be out of stock so either he's absolutely poor at managing things or they're moving faster than he can keep up which kind of fits with poor at managing things.

David's new DPIPixels cape will probably be sold via https://shop.FalconPlayer.com instead of https://pixelcontroller.com since the capes run on FPP and David doesn't support FPP, and he and I have talked about moving the existing PiCap over as well.

I think we will look at other options, we have discussed a differential-only cape for the Pi as well, but want to get the first one out the door and don't want to commit to anything beyond what is currently being worked on.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 12:08:42 PM
Quote from: dkulp on June 06, 2022, 09:03:53 AMYou MAY need to do a second fppos upgrade (to the exact same fppos file) on the Pi.  There is a bug in the fppos upgrade mechanism on FPP <=5.5 that isn't calling the correct "second stage" script.  It's fixed on the very very latest of the 5.5 branch, but going straight from any 5.x to 6.0 is likely going to not work immediately.  Unfortunately, it's a bug in the old versions so not something we can fix in the 6.0 fppos files.  We're trying to figure out if there are other options, but at this point a second fppos (which should go very quick as only a few files change) should get things into a good shape.

On the pixel string page, there then should be a Virtual EEProm button someplace that would need to be used first to install the PiHat virtual eeprom.  Once you do that, you should be able to configure the strings like normal.
So I've done a second upgrade OS to the 6.0 master fppos from the very latest 5.5 and still no joy.
I even did it a third time also with an upgrade to the latest get version and I still don't come up with a button for a virtual eeprom on the pixel string page. 
Is it possible that that virtual eeprom button is hidden somewhere else?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on June 06, 2022, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 12:08:42 PMI even did it a third time also with an upgrade to the latest get version and I still don't come up with a button for a virtual eeprom on the pixel string page.
Just to be sure you are looking in the right place, if you go to the Channel Outputs and select the Pixel Strings tab, it is on the right side. eeprom.jpg
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 01:29:20 PM
Quote from: Poporacer on June 06, 2022, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 12:08:42 PMI even did it a third time also with an upgrade to the latest get version and I still don't come up with a button for a virtual eeprom on the pixel string page.
Just to be sure you are looking in the right place, if you go to the Channel Outputs and select the Pixel Strings tab, it is on the right side. eeprom.jpg
That's not there. My page still has the enable string cape box Cape type and version box.
Could it be doing this because it's still looking at my old channeloutputs.json file?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 01:53:12 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 01:29:20 PMThat's not there. My page still has the enable string cape box Cape type and version box.
Could it be doing this because it's still looking at my old channeloutputs.json file?

If you don't have a physical or virtual EEPROM installed, that dropdown should only be showing if you have any string config json files under /opt/fpp/capes/pi/strings.  All of those files should have been removed by previous commits.

Can you go to the Developer tab in the Settings page and look at the 'Git status' section and paste it here?  If you know how to SSH into the Pi, can you also login and run "ls -al /opt/fpp/capes/pi/strings/" and paste the output here?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 01:58:23 PM
On branch master
Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 15 commits, and can be fast-forwarded.
  (use "git pull" to update your local branch)

nothing to commit, working tree clean
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 02:07:10 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 01:58:23 PMOn branch master
Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 15 commits, and can be fast-forwarded.
  (use "git pull" to update your local branch)

nothing to commit, working tree clean

Try pulling in updates from the About page again and see if that helps.  If not, you can try ssh-ing into the system using the SSH menu entry under the Help menu.  Use the 'fpp' login and 'falcon' password.  At the shell prompt, paste the following commands and copy the results back here:

ls -al /opt/fpp/capes/pi/strings
ls -al /home/fpp/media/tmp/
ls -al /home/fpp/media/config/c*

Type 'exit' to exit the shell after copying the output.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 02:32:31 PM
fpp@Yard-Matrix:~ $
fpp@Yard-Matrix:~ $ ls -al /home/fpp/media/tmp/
total 12                                                                                                                                                                                                          
drwxrwxr-x  2 fpp fpp 4096 Jun  6 15:15 .
drwxrwxr-x 18 fpp fpp 4096 Jun  6 15:15 ..
-rw-rw-r--  1 fpp fpp  450 Mar 27 00:42 cape-info.json                                                                                                                                                            
fpp@Yard-Matrix:~ $
fpp@Yard-Matrix:~ $ ls -al /home/fpp/media/config/c*
-rw-r--r-- 1 fpp fpp 2087 Jun  6 14:33 /home/fpp/media/config/channeloutputs.json                                                                                                                                 
-rw-r--r-- 1 fpp fpp  364 Jun  4 20:26 /home/fpp/media/config/ci-universes.json                                                                                                                                   
-rw-rw-r-- 1 fpp fpp   21 Jun  4 20:26 /home/fpp/media/config/commandPresets.json                                                                                                                                 
-rw-r--r-- 1 fpp fpp  994 Jun  4 20:26 /home/fpp/media/config/co-pixelStrings.BK                                                                                                                                  
-rw-r--r-- 1 fpp fpp  186 Jun  4 20:26 /home/fpp/media/config/co-universes.json                                                                                                                                   
fpp@Yard-Matrix:~ $

Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 02:54:40 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 02:32:31 PM-rw-rw-r--  1 fpp fpp  450 Mar 27 00:42 cape-info.json                                                                                                                                                             

OK, the issue is that old cape-info.json file.  It shouldn't be there.  Log back in via ssh and run "sudo rm /home/fpp/media/tmp/cape-info.json" and then reboot and see if the UI works.  We may need to update one of our boot scripts to handle that situation.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: dkulp on June 06, 2022, 03:06:43 PM
Where did that cape-info.json file come from though?    media/tmp should be wiped out on boot.   Thus, it shouldn't be there after a reboot anyway.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 03:11:46 PM
That worked in the end. I ran that command line and did a reboot but I ended up with the same window when I opened up the pixel strings tab. So I ran the command line again and then opened up the output page and found the virtual eeprom prompt under the pie hat tab then it allowed me to make the change and reboot.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 06, 2022, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: dkulp on June 06, 2022, 03:06:43 PMWhere did that cape-info.json file come from though?    media/tmp should be wiped out on boot.   Thus, it shouldn't be there after a reboot anyway.

Message sent in slack.  I may know what is causing it and if correct, it would explain why it came back after a reboot.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 07, 2022, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 03:11:46 PMThat worked in the end. I ran that command line and did a reboot but I ended up with the same window when I opened up the pixel strings tab. So I ran the command line again and then opened up the output page and found the virtual eeprom prompt under the pie hat tab then it allowed me to make the change and reboot.

Dan pushed a fix for this in the master code branch, can you pull in updates and see if you can reboot OK now without the json file reappearing.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 04:37:23 AM
Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on June 07, 2022, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 06, 2022, 03:11:46 PMThat worked in the end. I ran that command line and did a reboot but I ended up with the same window when I opened up the pixel strings tab. So I ran the command line again and then opened up the output page and found the virtual eeprom prompt under the pie hat tab then it allowed me to make the change and reboot.

Dan pushed a fix for this in the master code branch, can you pull in updates and see if you can reboot OK now without the json file reappearing.
I did a upgrade to 86a7920 and did a reboot and it seems fine. I'll do an OS upgrade on another pi set up in a similar way and see what the results are.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 05:02:40 AM
I did OS upgrade to another pi and ran it a second time per Dan's instructions then ran an upgrade to pull in the latest updates and it came up with several errors FPPD not found rebuild required, FPPD Daemon not running. After doing a rebuild everything is up and running and and I have the virtual eeprom under pixel strings. The first pi that I upgraded the tab is marked PiHat where this one is marked Pixel Strings and under LED panels the first one has enable PiHat where the second one reads enable LED panels?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 08, 2022, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 05:02:40 AMThe first pi that I upgraded the tab is marked PiHat where this one is marked Pixel Strings and under LED panels the first one has enable PiHat where the second one reads enable LED panels?

This sounds like you aren't running the latest code on that second upgraded system.  I fixed a bug related to this label on June 3 which was after the beta1 images were cut, so you will need to pull in updates to get the fix.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 10:32:50 AM
Second upgrade done exactly the same as the first from the about fpp page.
Fpp upgrade source github.com upgrade OS Pi-6.0-beta1.fppos. then I pull in the latest updates.
But I see what's going on as soon as I setup a virtual eeprom the tab name switched from pixel strings to PiHat and the name changed on the Enable button under LED panels at the same time.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 08, 2022, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 10:32:50 AMSecond upgrade done exactly the same as the first from the about fpp page.
Fpp upgrade source github.com upgrade OS Pi-6.0-beta1.fppos. then I pull in the latest updates.
But I see what's going on as soon as I setup a virtual eeprom the tab name switched from pixel strings to PiHat and the name changed on the Enable button under LED panels at the same time.

Can you pull in updates again on that second system and retry?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 11:20:14 AM
So I pulled in the update on both Pis and the tab name changes from Pixel string to PiHat when I setup a virtual eeprom.
And the LED panel enable button Read's enable PiHat even though I'm running a colorlight.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 08, 2022, 04:08:44 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 11:20:14 AMSo I pulled in the update on both Pis and the tab name changes from Pixel string to PiHat when I setup a virtual eeprom.
And the LED panel enable button Read's enable PiHat even though I'm running a colorlight.

I think this is fixed now after a couple changes.  Can you update and tell me if you think it looks correct for your setup?
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 08, 2022, 05:11:20 PM
Yes that works.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 12, 2022, 07:09:18 PM
So I tried to do an update on another pi (3B+) that uses a 2 string hat. Using the pi-6.0 beta1.fppos. 
After running the upgrade OS twice and doing a upgrade fpp and setting up a virtual eeprom I now have a error ,"abnormal conditions may cause poor performance could not create output type BBB48string check log for details"???
And on my output page I have the pihat set up as Cape type but there are no boxes in the lower section of the window to fill out any of the information.
I just thought somebody would like to know so you can get this sorted out.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: deanathpc on June 13, 2022, 05:32:52 AM
I tried a search and nothing but may have missed it so..

My DIY LED Express item, Scroller Assembled, that I purchased years ago.  Does this require a license then?  I purchased it a few years ago so I don't even remember any details on it and it's buried in my storage area right now.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on June 13, 2022, 07:33:13 AM
Quote from: deanathpc on June 13, 2022, 05:32:52 AMMy DIY LED Express item, Scroller Assembled, that I purchased years ago.  Does this require a license then?

There are only 2 pixel output types that are affected, the enhanced DPIPixels for the Pis and the BBBStrings48 for the BB Based controllers. This is for Pixel Strings connected directly to the cape.

Quote from: deanathpc on June 13, 2022, 05:32:52 AMI tried a search and nothing but may have missed it so..
Did you read the original post in this thread that you are posting on?

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PMThis list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to... the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs

Several people have asked almost the exact same question.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 13, 2022, 09:45:20 AM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 12, 2022, 07:09:18 PMAfter running the upgrade OS twice and doing a upgrade fpp and setting up a virtual eeprom I now have a error ,"abnormal conditions may cause poor performance could not create output type BBB48string check log for details"???
And on my output page I have the pihat set up as Cape type but there are no boxes in the lower section of the window to fill out any of the information.

I'm not sure where the BBB48String error came from on a Pi, the UI issue may also be related.  Can you grab the logs zip from the File Manager Logs tab and post it here so I can take a look.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 13, 2022, 12:03:44 PM
Here you go.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 13, 2022, 01:42:19 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 13, 2022, 12:03:44 PMHere you go.

Your co-pixelStrings.json config file thinks it should use the Beagle BBB48String channel output driver on the PiHat.  Can you reinstall the PiHat virtual EEPROM and see if that fixes it.  If it doesn't, switch to a different virtual EEPROM and then switch back, but you shouldn't have to resort to that.  The default co-pixelStrings.json should be overwritten when you reinstall the virtual EEPROM.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Ebuechner on June 13, 2022, 04:14:56 PM
That cleared it up, but the question is why did it do that in the first place. I didn't think I did anything unusual during the OS upgrade.
I did pull in updates just before I uninstalled and reinstalled the eeprom.
I was thinking of doing that with the virtual eeprom but I wanted to wait in case there was any Diagnostics that needed to be done to figure out why it did that.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on June 13, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: Ebuechner on June 13, 2022, 04:14:56 PMThat cleared it up, but the question is why did it do that in the first place. I didn't think I did anything unusual during the OS upgrade.

I'm not sure, I'm going to have to dive into the UI code to see if there is some case where it could write the wrong driver to the co-pixelStrings.json file.  That would have to come from the UI.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on July 22, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
There has been some confusion surrounding whether Multi-String WS281x Pi capes purchased by July 31, 2022 are eligible for a free grandfathered-in key voucher.

This post is to clarify that the Multi-String WS281x Pi capes such as the M4-Pi, M16-Diff, etc. ARE eligible for free grandfathered-in vouchers if purchased by July 31, 2022.

We have had several users actually purchase a key instead of using a voucher and use the key to sign the EEPROM for one of these capes.  I will be reaching out to those users via email directly regarding refunds since they did not need to purchase a key and should have been able to use a voucher.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: deanathpc on August 01, 2022, 10:43:08 AM
Quote from: Poporacer on June 13, 2022, 07:33:13 AM
Quote from: deanathpc on June 13, 2022, 05:32:52 AMMy DIY LED Express item, Scroller Assembled, that I purchased years ago.  Does this require a license then?

There are only 2 pixel output types that are affected, the enhanced DPIPixels for the Pis and the BBBStrings48 for the BB Based controllers. This is for Pixel Strings connected directly to the cape.

Quote from: deanathpc on June 13, 2022, 05:32:52 AMI tried a search and nothing but may have missed it so..
Did you read the original post in this thread that you are posting on?

Quote from: CaptainMurdoch on May 19, 2022, 09:53:06 PMThis list of Outputs which are NOT affected includes but is not limited to... the LED Panels outputs including directly attached as well as the ColorLight/Linsn outputs

Several people have asked almost the exact same question.
If several people have asked the exact same question them maybe it's not as clear as all you thought it to be.  Hence why I asked what I did when I did.

And in regards to reading the original post and your snarky response, yes.  I needed clarification as I was not understanding it due to be over tired from working nights.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Poporacer on August 01, 2022, 12:36:57 PM
Quote from: deanathpc on August 01, 2022, 10:43:08 AMAnd in regards to reading the original post and your snarky response, yes.
It was not intended to be snarky, but usually when people post additional comments to an existing post, they would read the responses to see if their question had been answered, in this case several times.

Quote from: deanathpc on August 01, 2022, 10:43:08 AMIf several people have asked the exact same question them maybe it's not as clear as all you thought it to be.
Or maybe they didn't read what had already been posted?

Quote from: deanathpc on August 01, 2022, 10:43:08 AMI was not understanding it due to be over tired from working nights.
That is understandable and people learn things in different manners.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Woganaga on August 23, 2022, 08:51:37 AM
Hi - sorry if this has already been covered. 
I just upgraded to V6
I have the license keys. 
I have homemade PB16 boards w/ EEPROM chip.
when i go to "about capes" it shows the following.  I do not get an option to put in a license key.
can someone point me to the steps sorry if i missed.
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: Woganaga on August 23, 2022, 09:11:23 AM
Quote from: Woganaga on August 23, 2022, 08:51:37 AMHi - sorry if this has already been covered. 
I just upgraded to V6
I have the license keys. 
I have homemade PB16 boards w/ EEPROM chip.
when i go to "about capes" it shows the following.  I do not get an option to put in a license key.
can someone point me to the steps sorry if i missed.

i think i may have figured this out.  I had to re-download /install the EEPROM code and then it asked for license.
I guess my question is now, what is the difference between the eeprom that was already there vs. the new one (it said unlimited before, then i upgraded and it said limited, then i added key and it said unlimited...)
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: bossier17 on August 23, 2022, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: smartalec on May 30, 2022, 01:14:52 AMFirst Question,
What the hell is DPI pixels?

I've have had BBB48 boards since FPP came out.

When you first started talking about the eeprom thing,
I reached out to get more info about it, but got told there was plenty of information and how easy it was to use it.

Since i got no support back then, i never saw the reason to add the eeprom to my boards

Now Im being told that since someone added "DPI Pixel" code into FPP, My Controllers will No Longer Work,
 and i now need to pay a license fee for my controllers to working or to sell them.

I call what you are doing is RIPPING off everyone,
(making a monopoly of 2 selected gods allowed to make controllers without license issues)

What about the original DIY RGB123 card that you based your original code on for controlling the 48 pins? (killed that in the process as well i see)

My DIY controller is only $50 (aud) and $15 (aud) soldered up.
But Now you think its fine to start demanding $50 (usd) = ($75aud) for some license for a chip, (until 2 months ago said no info on how to use it).


If you are honestly doing this for the better of the community,
-Why did you keep board designers in the dark about this eeprom an how to program it.?
-So what was your plan for using a eeprom? For board designers data? Or really a plan to add a license fee's?

You say there is a grace thing?
So how will this work?
My boards don't have the eeprom thing, due to lack of support and information from you's.

What about the customers that also have a version of my board? since no eeprom how is that possible for a license
(Also Who gave you permission to know how many controllers I sell?, This way your forcing business to give you that information to you.)

Im sorry your boards got copyed.
BUT there is no need to SCREW everyone else in this christmas hobby because of it.

Ohh i forgot,
Its Now just a money grabbing thing for you. (The Christmas spirit has left you, and you's became the Grinch stealing people's xmas shows)
Since you's want to stop all other board designers, or make it that hard for there customers.
Just so you can force them to buy your product, because its easyer to use without the license issue's

The Way you's have gone about this is totally SUS.
Also it is In moral for a business (that FPP now is due to licensing) to demand product sales information from other vendors that use this product.

Also where are my Grace Codes?
I have 8 BBB with my capes on them. So where is this illegal license your forcing on people?

Honestly there is going to be alot of abuse in zoom, When people say to upgrade FPP and it destroys people's shows cause of your license crap.

Unless your able to provide more information into what this license thing can do for my product.
eg.
- So i design a board to use a eeprom, for your new license.
- What are you offering the board designers for that license fee?
- You talk about special DPI pixel code, What is it? , What does it do?
- How can i integrate these new things on my boards

Does the License Fee cover any or all of the above questions?
(Or does the license only cover you's 2 and products you buy for research & future additions to your boards.)

What does the License really cover? (Some code that once worked? but you re-coded it to so you can charge money for it?)

Until you can be more Clear,
I will stick to FPP v5, and recommend everyone does the same,
Due to your money making grab, now using the license thing to back it up

Alec
SmartAlec Lights.


This is the ugliest, most ungrateful post I've read in a long time.  

Captain Murdoch, dkulp, poporacer, and everyone else who donates their time and talent to this forum and hobby - thank you.   I don't have to get a license, but I'll be donating what I would have spent this year if I did need to buy one.   I can't count the number of times you guys have personally helped me on these forums, and the support I have received on a free(!!!)FPP player is greater than any support I've received from paid products.  Thanks for all you do!!
Title: Re: FPP v6 changes related to BeagleBone, PocketBeagle, & Raspberry Pi pixel outputs
Post by: ninjinja on November 10, 2022, 12:45:22 PM
Hi all,

I emailed a picture of my DIY cape to diy@falconplayer.com as per the FAQ on the website, but on this post is says to add my email address to a piece of paper in the photo.  Is that why I haven't heard back yet?  Also if I need to make changes to my EEPROM, can I sign it again with the same code, or is it a one time deal?  Thank you all for your hard work, this has made show work better than ever.
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