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FPP v6.0 on separate subnet

Started by Tangledwires, August 05, 2022, 11:15:00 AM

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Tangledwires

Hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

After updating to FPP v6.0 I am unable to access FPP when on a subnet different from my home network.  FPP is accessible if I change the ip address to one available within the same subnet as my home router.

Details:  (apologies for length)
Kulp K16A-B & K8 Scroller.
Home network subnet 10.232.1
FPP network subnet 10.232.2  (hardwired to network, static ip addresses assigned)
Netmask 255.255.255.0 (same as before update)
Gateway = home router IP address (same as before update)

Background:
Separate subnet has been working fine for over a year.  No changes to cabling or router configuration.
Using Chrome I accessed FPP on both controllers to bring them to the latest version of 5.5-24-ge46bb817.
I downloaded BBB-6.0.FPPOS to my computer then up to the controllers via the File Manager page.
The OS upgrade was launched via the About page.
<<All of this was done with the controllers on the separate subnet.>>

Once the update completed,  (last lines= "done copy, Unmounting filesystems... Please Reboot....Rebooting... Please close this window and refresh this screen, etc.) I was unable to access FPP via the browser.  After waiting ~5 minutes I went to the board and using the buttons, initiated a reboot.  The reboot completed and the OLED screen showed the expected (10.232.2.xx) ip address that it had been previously.  Still not able to access FPP via browser from home network (page times out. Using ip address in url field). I initiated a shutdown, power off, then restart - no access. Using board buttons I changed the ip address to one within the home network subnet and rebooted.  It was now accessible.  The initial setup screen appeared for v6.0.  I completed the screen and everything appears normal.  Used the backup file to reset configuration and rebooted - no access.

Reset the ip address to home network, regained access and updated FPP to v6.02 which completed successfully.  Changed the ip address back to its own subnet -  no access.  Shutdown, power off recycle - no access.

I figured something must have gotten corrupted during the update to v6, so I took the SD card out and did a quick format then re-etch (balena) using the v6 BBB file.  This didn't make any difference.  I can only access FPP when it is defined with an ip address on the home network subnet.

When on its own subnet and not accessible from the home network, I have accessed the menu from the on-board OLED screen.  From the "FPP Mode" screen, if I select #Player (which is already set), it takes a few seconds, but I get a momentary message -  "FPPD is not running".  Not sure if that is the root of the issue or how to get it running.

It all looks good when on the home network subnet, but can't figure this out when it is on its own subnet - which worked fine prior to the v6.0 update.

I suspect I'm missing a simple configuration tweak.   Thanks for any suggestions.

JonD

#1
Quote from: Tangledwires on August 05, 2022, 11:15:00 AMHome network subnet 10.232.1
FPP network subnet 10.232.2  (hardwired to network, static ip addresses assigned)
Netmask 255.255.255.0 (same as before update)
Gateway = home router IP address (same as before update)

I am not sure I am following how the devices are configured. 

Can you clarify your IPs?

IP of the home network computer you are using
IP:
SN:
GW:

The hardwired IP of the FPP
IP:
SN:
GW:

Are you using the FPP wireless adapter?
IP:
SN:
GW:

When you are on the home computer, which FPP IP are you trying to access?

 



Tangledwires

JonD - Thanks for the reply

IP of the home network computer you are using
IP:  10.232.1.150
SN:  10.232.1
GW:  10.232.1.100

The hardwired IP of the FPP
IP:  10.232.2.0
SN:   10.232.2
GW:  10.232.1.100

Are you using the FPP wireless adapter?  No

When you are on the home computer, which FPP IP are you trying to access?   10.232.2.0

JonD

#3
Quote from: Tangledwires on August 06, 2022, 12:03:04 PMIP of the home network computer you are using
IP:  10.232.1.150
SN:  10.232.1
GW:  10.232.1.100

The hardwired IP of the FPP
IP:  10.232.2.0
SN:   10.232.2
GW:  10.232.1.100

If both networks are using subnet mask (SN) 255.255.255.0, the gateway on the FPP is not valid.   The FPP device must use a gateway IP address starting with octets 10.232.2.x  The IPs you listed are not valid/complete, so not sure what to suggest.

Maybe some print screens of the network settings on the FPP and the home network computer?    Is the FPP really at 10.232.2.0?  You should not use the first or last number in the network range.  It is used for network id and broadcast information.  If your FPP is set to zero as the last octet, change it to something else, but that alone is not going to fix this.

Poporacer

#4
Quote from: Tangledwires on August 05, 2022, 11:15:00 AMI suspect I'm missing a simple configuration tweak. 
I suspect that is true as well. You didn't explain your setup very clear.

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 05, 2022, 11:15:00 AMI am unable to access FPP when on a subnet different from my home network.
You have to have some sort of device configured to bridge the networks, I am not sure what you are using?
 
Quote from: Tangledwires on August 05, 2022, 11:15:00 AMFPP network subnet 10.232.2  (hardwired to network, static ip addresses assigned)
Is this a Pi with FPP installed? If so, are you connecting this device to your Home Network via Wi-Fi?

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 06, 2022, 12:03:04 PMIP of the home network computer you are using
SN is Subnet mask...it should be 255.255.255.0
GW is Gateway and almost always ends in .1 or ,254 ---- Are you on some sort of mesh system? If so, we need all the information on that as well.

Like was mentioned some screenshots of your configuration would help. Your explanations don't look like it should work, but I think it is because you don't understand some of the terminology. You should jump in the Zoom Room if you want instant help.
If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

Tangledwires

Thanks, I appreciate your time.  This isn't an FPP issue.  I've created a similar access issue using a laptop and desktop each on the separate subnet.
I'm baffled as to why it would have stopped working, but have just about exhausted my last brain cells. 
I'll jump into the zoom room when I get a chance.  Thank you again.

<< Just so you're not left hanging on your questions - 
You have to have some sort of device configured to bridge the networks, I am not sure what you are using? - I believed this to be my home router with static route defined.  The config was done so long ago I can't recall all the steps/components required to set it up.

Yes, subnet mask is 255.255.255.0.   No mesh involved.   Beaglebone Black on both Kulp controllers.  No wi-fi;  both BBB's are connected to the same dedicated switch via ethernet cables.  This controller switch connected to the home network switch.

Configuring a laptop with an ip on the FPP subnet, I'm able to access the controllers.  The systems are running at 6.02 as expected.  Something in the linkage between the two subnets is blocking me.... laptop on 10.232.2 can't ping desktop on 10.232.1, both can ping the router.
>>

Maybe by stepping away I'll have an epiphany...

Grateful for the support provided on this forum!

 

JonD


Quote from: Tangledwires on August 07, 2022, 06:14:04 PMYes, subnet mask is 255.255.255.0.   No mesh involved.   Beaglebone Black on both Kulp controllers.  No wi-fi;  both BBB's are connected to the same dedicated switch via ethernet cables.  This controller switch connected to the home network switch.

When you segment your system into two separate networks, the networks are not able to talk to each other directly.  Instead of talking to each other, they send the data to the local router (gateway) for processing.  The router has to be local to the device (be within the same network ID) and the router has to be aware of where the other network is located (typically route tables configured).  If the FPP gateway is pointing to the other network, that would be an issue.  The FPP can't talk to the other gateway either.  The gateway address must be within the local IP network range on each side.

An FPP upgrade would not impact the home network, or any router tables, but still kind of in the dark in how it was setup prior.  If it worked once it should work again though. 


Poporacer

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 07, 2022, 06:14:04 PMThis isn't an FPP issue
I am not sure what that statement was referencing since everyone was responding with network related questions?

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 07, 2022, 06:14:04 PMYou have to have some sort of device configured to bridge the networks, I am not sure what you are using? - I believed this to be my home router with static route defined.  The config was done so long ago I can't recall all the steps/components required to set it up.

Your Home router is the device that bridges your home network to the internet. If you are splitting your home network, then you need some sort of device to bridge those two networks.

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 07, 2022, 06:14:04 PMBeaglebone Black on both Kulp controllers.  No wi-fi;  both BBB's are connected to the same dedicated switch via ethernet cables.  This controller switch connected to the home network switch.
Ok, now we have some relevant information. In this case there is NO need to put your controllers on a different subnet, you do not gain anything by doing so and only complicate things,

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 07, 2022, 06:14:04 PMConfiguring a laptop with an ip on the FPP subnet, I'm able to access the controllers.
That is standard networking protocols and to be expected in this situation.

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 07, 2022, 06:14:04 PMSomething in the linkage between the two subnets is blocking me....
It probably isn't something blocking you, but an improper configuration.
If it worked before, it should work now. But based on your description of your set up, it should have never worked, so I think we are missing something in this puzzle.
Is there a reason that you think you need to have your show devices on a different subnet? Like I said, you get no benefit in doing so and it overly complicates things.
There are some network diagrams/descriptions in the FPP Manual here:
https://falconchristmas.github.io/FPP_Manual(6.0).pdf#page=165


If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

Tangledwires

My comment about this not being an FPP issue was to ensure that future readers of this thread were clear.

My intent of having the controllers on the different subnet was to isolate all the holiday light traffic to minimize any performance impact to the family's use of the home network and internet access.  I was attempting to achieve this via the Separate Show Network info beginning on page 168.  I see that all examples show the FPP device bridging the two subnets by using both eth0 and wlan0, but it was working (somehow) without using wireless. I was under the impression that the static route definition in the router was allowing the two subnets to communicate.  Maybe that isn't correct and I was just blissfully ignorant since it seemed to give me all the necessary access and functionality to upload outputs and use FPP Connect from Xlights (green ball indicators for both controllers on controller screen), access the playlist from my iphone defined with home subnet ip, and perform software maintenance updates (V4.6 -> 5.x; 5.5 latest -> 6.0).  Happy camper!

I agree that it must be a network issue, but I didn't change anything in the midst of the update to v6.0.  I'm at a loss.

Final question and I'll let you focus on other issues:  Is the separate subnet not needed to achieve the traffic isolation?  You indicate that there is no gain by using a different subnet.  I would prefer to keep the traffic separate but not complicate thing unnecessarily.

Poporacer and JonD - I appreciate your input.

JonD


Quote from: Tangledwires on August 08, 2022, 10:06:09 AMIs the separate subnet not needed to achieve the traffic isolation? 
A standard switch will isolate a lot of the traffic assuming you are not multicasting.  In theory, an average home and light display would probably run just fine on the same network and be a lot less complicated.  Two networks would certainly be more isolated, but is the complication going to be worth the benefit.  In your case it could be minimal. 

I prefer to keep them separated personally, but you could most likely keep them on the same network if you wanted to.


k6ccc

It is very possible to have the how network separated from the "home" network and still be able to access the show network without using WiFi on some device on the show network - I am doing so.  HOWEVER, I am NOT using a typical consumer type router.  My router has 10 physical LAN connections (all on separate LANs), and 17 VLANs.  It will happily route traffic between them (based on what is allowed in firewall rules).
Most consumer type routers have no ability to have separate LAN interfaces.  Therefore, most people who need or want to run a separate show network use a separate network interface on an FPP instance (usually WiFi) to connect to your "normal" home LAN.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

JonD

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 08, 2022, 10:06:09 AMI was under the impression that the static route definition in the router was allowing the two subnets to communicate. 
Guessing gateway 10.232.1.100 is probably still aware of the 10.232.2.x network, but something happened on the 10.232.2.x side.  The show network gateway is wrong, and the FPP IP at zero is wrong.  Something got messed up with the upgrade.  Can you login to your home router and see if you have any route tables listed for the show subnet?  If it has a route table, it would tell us where the home network was sending show traffic to, and if it does, that is most likely the device that would send it back.  That would be very helpful information at this point.  Print screens of your network settings, and router config would still be helpful, but a zoom meeting would probably be the quickest solution.


Tangledwires

JonD - 

I gave up on the configuration that I was running.  Everyone and everything I read indicated that my setup shouldn't have worked.  After trying everything I could think of to regain the original function, I installed a second router for the show network, cascaded them (home)Lan to (show)WAN with a static route in the home router (and a few other tweaks on the show side).

Access from the home network is restored and everything is back up and running.  Thanks for your time.

Poporacer

Quote from: Tangledwires on August 11, 2022, 02:18:23 PMAfter trying everything I could think of to regain the original function, I installed a second router for the show network, cascaded them (home)Lan to (show)WAN with a static route in the home router (and a few other tweaks on the show side).
Installing a second router and not a switch might introduce some more undesired side effects. Like several of us have mentioned, using a switch will isolate your show traffic from your home network. But if you got it working, then great!
If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

jnealand

@Tanglewires  You have done exactly how I have had mine setup for many years.  Works great for me.  I know there are other ways to do it, but I traditionally don't change things unless there is a COMPELLING reason to do so.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it is my motto.
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA all Falcon controllers, all 12v Master Remote Multisync with Pi and BBB P10 and P5

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