Random flickering longer away from controller

[foremore]

I am having random bursts of white or green during test patterns the further I get from the controller. After about the 4th prop is when it starts. It's a 600w power supply 12v. If I swap props around still an issue after 300-400 pixels.

Is this a power issue or data issue?

I have 12 props with 2-3 feet between each one.  The first prop is 10ft from controller. 940 pixels in total.

I have a null pixel a few inches from the controller then a f amp then about 10 feet to first prop. I also have an f amp in the middle of the props. Each prop has an extension line of 2-3 feet.

I have power injected in 4 different locations all from same power supply. All pixels run test patterns good and light pixels correctly, just the longer I get From the controller the synced flashes of white or green on most of the pixels happen the further I get from the controller.

If my lines too long for the data shouldn't my f amps be good enough? If it's a power issue is it because my lines are to long? I have 14 gauge for power lines and 16 gauge for extensions.

Would a higher wattage power supply fix it or an additional power supply further down the line to power the last set of props independently make it work?

[JonD]

Sounds like a power issue to me.  You will need to power inject every 170-200 pixels. 

http://spikerlights.com/calcpower.aspx

[foremore]

Can I power inject from same power supply... I'm guessing yes.

Can I chain power inject from another instead of another home run line back to controller?
I'm guessing depends but generally yes.

Is my 600w sufficient with the long runs I need? Guessing yes.

Guess I'm pulling out my multimeter again the check in to voltage drops.

I think I'll home run another power run to the end of the line and see if that helps

[foremore]

Other research I've found on the topic- 

Data cable from box to first prop possible issue

ferrite core to limit cable noise and grounding issues

data speed adjustment?

Seperate data wire from voltage wires
data wire interference with voltage wires in box

faulty pixel? Faulty cable? Move around props just to check again

33ohm resistors swap- seems drastic https://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php?topic=13180.0

[foremore]

What I think will solve - trying after thanksgiving-

I have common v- across both ports on the picap v1.  I need to seperate the common to 1 common per port. I also need to return the v- to the controller (currently skipping straight to the psu) 

[MikeKrebs]

Last one. The V- needs to be referenced with the data line. So, definitely V- to controller. But it should also be connected with your power V-.

[foremore]

I guess from all my research what is throwing me for a loop is the idea that all this is from the same box, I'm power injecting but at the beginning of the line instead of further down the line, so I got confused on what I connect or don't connect to the controller board.

from what I now understand is V- and data need to come from controller port (to create a complete loop or it misbehaves) and V+ comes from psu. If you have 2 psu you common the V- AFTER the controller AND ONLY common the V- PER port even though controller only has 1 power input. so you don't common all V- together for all ports and get weird things going on like flashing and making it seem like you don't have enough power.

Port 1 - V- and data come from port. V+ comes from #1 Psu. And power injection V- comes from common V- line AFTER  controller on port 1. V+ power injection from #1 Psu.
Port 2 - V- and data come from port. V+ comes from #2 Psu. And power injection V- comes from common V- line AFTER  controller on port 2. V+ power injection from #2 Psu

[foremore]

Still noise - figure it's the 2nd new power supply as the first has ran for years and had some issues with all common V- that then stopped when I made a separate common 1 per port after port. 

Must be either a bad psu or cheap psu. Buying the good stuff and running 2 340ws. Now it's all about injecting 1 psu at beginning then 2nd psu in middle while at end of 1rst line connecting V- and data to keep common and then injecting at end of each line. Figured I have 283ft of total line between props and the props themselves (3inch pixel spacing of 842 pixels) so 2 Psu for each half and injecting at end of each should do the trick. 

[foremore]

Still noise on second port. It's pulsing bright white now. No probs on first port as V- commons are all separate now. going to play with voltage step tomorrow and see if I need to step down voltage on the 2 new psu 's.

Also I think I was overthinking when to common v-. Going to remove common v- from 2nd psu inside the box and then only common v- where injection occurs.

I think I'm getting closer

[LedMutt]

If this is of any help, I had some flickering about two shows ago, on the props farther away from the controller, all V- are connected together in the controller box, what I used is a F-amp just before the first pixel at the prop and flickering went away, if its of any help...

[foremore]

Thanks! Ive used an f amp in multiple places to see what it does and back when I had all v- from both ports connected it made things worse haha. Now that the ports are seperate I have 1 f amp after a null pixel at start of line. If all else fails I'll plug in another f amp down the line to see if it helps any.

[foremore]

I have mostly fixed it.

1. Combo of things were wrong. 

Singular common v- AFTER port. If power injection then no v- common till at injection point

My candy canes were custom - I had a wire run down inside the cane and out the bottom. 15 pixels up the side of the cane. For some reason these caused the most issues. Interference perhaps? 

Removing candy canes also removed a lot of wire. Could be I was trying to go to long? I figured total of 283ft with pixels included at 3inch spacing. Half the line on 1 psu 340w the other half on a different psu 340w. Power injections at end of line. 

I swapped the power to the Picapv1 from port 0 power supply to port 1 power supply. Why does the port that supports the Picap power have a longer range? I noticed some shimmering closer to end of line in my Port 0 that wasn't there once I swapped over and had to dim the lights to compensate. 

Would a single 1500w power supply fix all these issues? Are my power injection lines too long? Using 14awg ... and probably close to 40ft runs. 

[JonD]

Would a single 1500w power supply fix all these issues? Are my power injection lines too long? Using 14awg ... and probably close to 40ft runs. 

Probably not... it is still going to send out 12v and the lights are going to consume the power along the way.  Provided you have enough power in the first place, adding more watts is not likely going to help, but I am not the power guru and would confirm that would someone more knowledgeable.

Are you using 14awg for all three wires, or just power?  Seems like power likes larger gauge, data likes smaller, and 18awg is considered the sweet spot for both.  If you are running 14 gauge all the way that might be adding to the issue?

[foremore]

Would a single 1500w power supply fix all these issues? Are my power injection lines too long? Using 14awg ... and probably close to 40ft runs.

Probably not... it is still going to send out 12v and the lights are going to consume the power along the way.  Provided you have enough power in the first place, adding more watts is not likely going to help, but I am not the power guru and would confirm that would someone more knowledgeable.

Are you using 14awg for all three wires, or just power?  Seems like power likes larger gauge, data likes smaller, and 18awg is considered the sweet spot for both.  If you are running 14 gauge all the way that might be adding to the issue?

Thanks - things like this are awesome to know! 

All extensions and data lines from prop to prop is 18awg. Power injection home runs are 14awg and only 1 daisy chain per home run if needed. 

Why does the psu that supplies the picap the power somehow get more range / length then the other port that gets power injected at start of line? 

When I power the 2nd port do I inject v+ and v- at the port before 1rst pixel or just v+ and common the v- power injection when I add the psu further down the line or does it matter?

I'm eventually after i get more mojo back I'll going to check up the power line - I have an older power strip that may not handle 1800w for all these devices. Also thinking of my smart plug to turn off the psu when no show is going. Then thinking on if I need a 30a circuit breaker or not on this line. 

[JonD]

Thanks - things like this are awesome to know! 

Well... only if it is correct.  I rarely power inject, and don't have a need personally.  You would be wise to confirm that before you write it to memory!