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Blown Fuses

Started by coxie2, September 07, 2020, 08:15:09 AM

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coxie2

Powering an F4V3 from a Distro 8. When I try to test all lights, fuse blows on the distro 8. When I check each port by itself, test can be performed fine. When I try two ports, test is fine, but when I add the third port to the mix, blown fuse. Fuses on the F4 are fine. Originally I had the system set up with 16 universes, but contacted the xlights zoom room (prior to the blown fuse issue) on an related matter and they had me change a few settings and now I have 12 universes. After the change, the blown fuse issue started.  Could reducing the universes over populated one of the ports ?

Poporacer

Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 08:15:09 AMPowering an F4V3 from a Distro 8
How are you using the F8-Distro? There is only one power connection to the F4V3 so you should only be using one fused output from the F8-Distro


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 08:15:09 AMWhen I try to test all lights, fuse blows on the distro 8
How many lights and what voltage are the lights?


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 08:15:09 AMOriginally I had the system set up with 16 universes, but contacted the xlights zoom room (prior to the blown fuse issue) on an related matter and they had me change a few settings and now I have 12 universes. After the change, the blown fuse issue started.  Could reducing the universes over populated one of the ports ?
No, the number of Universes has ne effect on the power consumption of the F4V3. Universes are just a data transmission protocol.


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 08:15:09 AMWhen I check each port by itself, test can be performed fine. When I try two ports, test is fine, but when I add the third port to the mix, blown fuse.
What happens if you swap some strings like plug the string connected to port 3 into port 1 and the string from port 1 into port 3? I think it is an issue with one of your strings. Maybe a stray wire in the green phoenix connectors?
If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

pixelpuppy

If I'm understanding how you have it connected.....

You are taking a single output from a Distro-8, which has a 5a fuse, to power the whole F4V3.  Each pixel output port on the F4 also has a 5a fuse.  When you test one port at a time you got 5a in, 5a out so no problem.  But when you test all ports at the same time you are attempting to power up to 20a (5a x 4) of lights with a single 5a output on the Distro-8, and thus, the 5a fuse on the Distro blows.

In other words, you should plan your power INPUT to the F4V3 to be 20a so it can handle all 4x 5A ouptuts at the same time
-Mark

coxie2

I am coming out of the distro 8 with one output into the input on the F4V3. That is the fuse that blows when testing all lights. When I was using the 16 universes I had no problems. Pixelpuppy  Will the F4V3 handle 20 A. in ? If so should I just replace the 5A on the distro board with a 20 A or run from 4 outs on the distro 8 to the single input on the F4V3 ? I still believe there is something happening after I dropped to 12 universes.  Thoughts ?

Poporacer

Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 11:33:01 AMI am coming out of the distro 8 with one output into the input on the F4V3.
The F8-Distro is designed more for power injecting individual strings. Like pixelpuppy stated, you are probably pulling more power through the F8-Distro is designed to handle.


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 11:33:01 AMWhen I was using the 16 universes I had no problems.
And maybe not all the lights were working because you didn't have enough Universes to control all of the lights? Universes in themselves have absolutely NO EFFECT on the current draw.
Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 11:33:01 AMWill the F4V3 handle 20 A. in ? If so should I just replace the 5A on the distro board with a 20 A
Yes, the F4V3 can handle 20A, but ABSOLUTELY DO NOT replace the fuse on the F8-Distro unless you want to deal with a fire!
Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 11:33:01 AMor run from 4 outs on the distro 8 to the single input on the F4V3
No, if you insist on fusing the input, use one single inline fuse for the F4V3, something like this with the correct fuse based on your wiring https://www.amazon.com/MCIGICM-Inline-Fuse-Holder-Blade/dp/B081DHT8Y7/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=inline+fuse&qid=1599502185&sr=8-16
Many people wire directly from the PS to the controller.
Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 11:33:01 AMI still believe there is something happening after I dropped to 12 universes.  Thoughts ?
Like I said, the # of Universes has absolutely no direct effect on the power draw of the controller. But, it is possible that if your Universes were configured incorrectly that not all of the lights were actually working with the 16 Universes, but once it was configured correctly at 12 Universes more lights were actually lighting up so it was drawing more power.
If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

coxie2

Poporacer  All pixels are 12 v. I am coming out of the distro 8 with one output. One port has 800 pixels which I had spread across 5 universes. Two ports use 3 universes, and the other 5 universes. I know my nuber of universes is overkill but I wanted it set up for future expansion of pixels.

coxie2

So you are saying I should run power from the ps to the F4V3 unfused and from the ps to the distro 8 for power injection should it be needed.

Poporacer

Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 12:26:20 PMOne port has 800 pixels which I had spread across 5 universes
Which port is that? 800 12V pixels will draw around 16 amps at full white! Test patterns don't use a solid white so you aren't seeing a problem....yet!
But that is more than one port alone or one port of the F8-Distro can handle. (Get the concept of Universes being related to pixels/ports out of your head!)


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 12:26:20 PMTwo ports use 3 universes, and the other 5 universes.
Did I say that you need to get the concept of Universes out of your head??? Universes don't have ANY relevance to your pixels, ports or models. They are NOT directly related to any of it. It is just a communication protocol! I think you have a serious misunderstanding of what a Universe is!


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 12:26:20 PMI know my nuber of universes is overkill but I wanted it set up for future expansion of pixels.
You don't need to do that, a properly configured system will expand and be able to be modified without any issues. If you use more Universes than needed, then you could be spamming your network and making your controller work harder than it need to. Even though YOU don't have anything in the Universes, the network and controller have to process the data, it isn't blank.


Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 12:55:45 PMSo you are saying I should run power from the ps to the F4V3 unfused and from the ps to the distro 8 for power injection should it be needed.
That is a very common method, some people like to put an inline fuse between the PS and the F4.


I have a question, what was the problem you were experiencing when you went into the Zoom room?
If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

coxie2

Poporacer  How many pixels will the F4V3 port handle then ?  The documentation I have read says each port should handle 1094 pixels and I am no where near that ?

coxie2

Poporacer  The problem surfaced after i downloaded and installed xlights 2020.34. Was running 2020.23 and had a sequence started, rendered, and saved. I had not uploaded to FPP yet as I was still working on it. Once I started up 2020.34 the sequence did not play as I had saved it so rather than start over, I went to the Zoom Room and the moderator had me make the changes, then when i tested the all lights, fuse blew. Went through three of so fuses then I did the single port testing to make sure the F4V3 was not damaged. The sequence I was working on does not use anywhere near all the pixels at once so I was able to complete the sequence and have tested it several times without issue.

k6ccc

Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 03:47:03 PMPoporacer  How many pixels will the F4V3 port handle then ?  The documentation I have read says each port should handle 1094 pixels and I am no where near that ?
The ports can drive that many channels, but can not power anywhere near that number (except maybe at REALLY low level).  The general rule of thumb when running pixels at 100%, is that a controller can power about 100 pixels at 12 volts, and 50 at 5 volts.  Much beyond that and you need power injection.  That is what the fuse distro board will get used for - not for powering the controller.

BTW, even if the controller could source enough current for 1000+ pixels, the wires on the strings could not.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

k6ccc

Quote from: coxie2 on September 07, 2020, 04:02:43 PMPoporacer  The problem surfaced after i downloaded and installed xlights 2020.34. Was running 2020.23 and had a sequence started, rendered, and saved. I had not uploaded to FPP yet as I was still working on it. Once I started up 2020.34 the sequence did not play as I had saved it so rather than start over, I went to the Zoom Room and the moderator had me make the changes, then when i tested the all lights, fuse blew. Went through three of so fuses then I did the single port testing to make sure the F4V3 was not damaged. The sequence I was working on does not use anywhere near all the pixels at once so I was able to complete the sequence and have tested it several times without issue.

Translation:  You lucked out.  You are correct that MOST sequences do not light every light to 100% for an extended duration.  So, yes, you can generally get away with less power than a full load test.  That does not mean you should do it.  You need to supply enough power to controllers or strings via power injection (or usually a combination of both) so that you CAN bring every single pixel up to 100% at the same time and leave them that way for a while (minutes).  If that does not work, you need to re-evaluate how you are powering your strings.
The exception to this is if you KNOW from experience that you are never going to set the levels in the controller setting at more than some number less than 100%, you can use that as your full power test.  What I mean by that is that if you built the prop (let's say a pixel tree) that has 2,400 pixel on it.  You powered it up at 100% full white and said "Oh my God, that's too bright", so you changed the controller settings (not your sequencing) to let's say 30%.  Now you can safely use that as you "full power load".  You do need to remember that you did that so when street lighting changes and you now need it brighter, you may need to re-evaluate your power.  Better to have too much power available than not enough.
Using LOR (mostly SuperStar) for all sequencing - using FPP only to drive P5 and P10 panels.
My show website:  http://newburghlights.org

Jim

allknowing2012

If you turned on xlights full control - any chance that overwrote our brightness settings to 100%. ie. it will overwrite any brightness settings you had on the controller.

Poporacer

Quote from: allknowing2012 on September 07, 2020, 05:05:27 PMIf you turned on xlights full control - any chance that overwrote our brightness settings to 100%.
Full xLights control will only delete vacant port data is selected. If you select the Brightness option in the controller section of the model, then it will upload that setting even with Full xLights control not set.
If to err is human, I am more human than most people.

coxie2

Thanks for all your input guys. It is clear that I have some re-evaluating of my set up. I may try to sequence "Burning Down da House!"  ha ha !

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