Falcon Christmas

Falcon Christmas => Falcon PiCap => Topic started by: duddleydo on May 28, 2019, 04:40:15 PM

Title: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 28, 2019, 04:40:15 PM
If someone could verify my setup is correct. My PiCap and Pi are smoked.


Here's the setup I am using.
Verified power output of PSU is 24vdc and leads are correctly.
24Vdc PSU. V+ to PiCap V input
24Vdc PSU. V- to PiCap GND input
PiCap Jumbers- 1&2, 3&4 (for 7-24v input) are jumpered
Jumper for PWR PI jumbered.
 
I didn't have any lights connected, VR1 smoked and PI is toast.
A week prior I set up my PI with FPP and was operating correctly. I also followed the youtube video recommended on Falcons setup info from Listentoourlight.
[size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS2OaGXIoj4&list=PLzMmKH8vOPBY0Yze1wNmKyv0yNOOZl8VA&index=13&t=898s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS2OaGXIoj4&list=PLzMmKH8vOPBY0Yze1wNmKyv0yNOOZl8VA&index=13&t=898s)[/size]


Did I hook this up wrong, or should I have pulled the PWR PI jumber? I'm hesitent in ordering another PI and PICap, if this will happen again.
Any help would be appreciated.


Duddley
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Poporacer on May 28, 2019, 06:11:13 PM
There are 3 jumpers and 6 pins. Exactly how did you have the jumpers set? A picture of the jumpers would help a lot. But If you have the jumper in place marked PWR PI, then that should be correct. The PWR Pi jumper is to configure where the PiCap is going to get its power. The video you mentioned does say that with this jumper in place, your Picap will get its power from the PI which if you are using a PixelController version is not correct.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Sawdust on May 28, 2019, 06:39:11 PM
No written instructions will cause this a lot.  Even DiY'er need something to guide them.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Poporacer on May 28, 2019, 08:26:57 PM
No written instructions will cause this a lot.  Even DiY'er need something to guide them.
I don't know what you are talking about, the vendor page has a couple links. They even have a forum topic dedicated to the controller. And there is a link to a YouTube video on how to use it....
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 28, 2019, 09:18:23 PM

Sorry, just noticed half my post was missing.


Verified 24 at PSU
Jumpers:
PWR Pi Jumpered
1&2 Jumpered
2&3 Jumpered


No lights hooked up.
Followed "listentoourlights" from product page to the letter. Only difference was 24vdc PSU
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 28, 2019, 09:21:55 PM
Sawdust,
I followed Falcons advice and they suggested this youtube video by "listentoourlights"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS2OaGXIoj4&list=PLzMmKH8vOPBY0Yze1wNmKyv0yNOOZl8VA&index=13&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS2OaGXIoj4&list=PLzMmKH8vOPBY0Yze1wNmKyv0yNOOZl8VA&index=13&t=1s)


I'm just double checking my math.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 28, 2019, 09:29:56 PM
Poporacer,
You are correct. I did have PWR Pi jumpered per the video. (13:10)
 He was using a 12V psu with all the jumpers connected and the pi powered externally.


That is where it went..boom then. Appreciate the feed back and heads up.


If I could figure out how to post with a picture I would. FYI. All jumpers on in default.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Sawdust on May 28, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
No written instructions will cause this a lot.  Even DiY'er need something to guide them.
I don't know what you are talking about, the vendor page has a couple links. They even have a forum topic dedicated to the controller. And there is a link to a YouTube video on how to use it....

Sorry, I didn’t seen any guidance to not power Pi from the PiHat.  Most, if not all others, have a regulator or buck unit so the configured input could power the Pi.  The video doesn’t discuss, nor did any forum post I read.

User manual / instructions buy forum - just wow
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Poporacer on May 28, 2019, 10:41:06 PM
Like you said, the video did not provide any guidance to not power the Pi from the PiCap. That is because you have the option to select how you want to power the PiCap and that was explained. It DOES have a converter so that it could power the Pi, but you have to actually tell your PiCap how to handle the power (AKA Power Pi Jumper) At approximately the 3:00 minute mark it explains that if you are going to power the PiCap from the Pi that you need this jumper installed (I think he got this backwards). Since there are only two options for powering the PiCap, either from the Pi or from a power supply and he explained that if you were powering one way you have to have the jumper installed, then most people would assume that if you were powering it the "other" way, that the jumper needs to be removed? Maybe he should have expanded on that, but it was clear to me.
But because there is a possibility that an incorrect jumper setting could fry things, they should probably put an informational sheet in the package explaining how to properly configure the jumpers?
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 28, 2019, 10:53:02 PM
I missed that part at the beginning after watching it on two different occasions. My confusion came in when he powered everything up with all jumpers on and power to the Pi.
I ordered another Pi and PiCap this week. I still have hope...


I'll be removing the PWR PI jumper on the next go around. Thanks for the double checking.


Thanks
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Poporacer on May 28, 2019, 11:13:03 PM
Hold on a sec. After further research (A post from Dan Kulp) he stated that the PWR Pi jumper is set to use the power from the PiCap to power the Pi (which makes sense because the Pi couldn't supply enough power for more than a few pixels). So I think the statement in the video might be incorrect? I think he didn't have problems because he was using the same voltage. Did you have power supplied to the Pi as well?
If you did have the 1-2 Jumper and 3-4 Jumper and the PWR Pi Jumper installed and only power to the PiCap then there might be a problem with the PiCap. Contact David directly and he will be able to figure out if you had something wrong and if it was the board that was defective, he will make it right!
Are you running 24V pixels? Why powering from 24V?

Check this out from the forum
https://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php/topic,6139.0.html

Did you purchase your original PiHat from Pixelcontrollers.com (I was assuming that, but figured I would ask to be sure)
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: dkulp on May 29, 2019, 05:57:58 AM

Even if powering the Pi from the Hat, the OKI buck converter that is on the hat is only rated to something like 13 or 15V.    Sending 24 through it would fry it and I'm not sure what all else.





Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Poporacer on May 29, 2019, 06:48:54 AM
Even if powering the Pi from the Hat, the OKI buck converter that is on the hat is only rated to something like 13 or 15V.    Sending 24 through it would fry it and I'm not sure what all else.
The Specs on the web page and on the board itself indicate that it is able to handle 7-24 volts, is this a typo?
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: dkulp on May 29, 2019, 07:09:07 AM
Even if powering the Pi from the Hat, the OKI buck converter that is on the hat is only rated to something like 13 or 15V.    Sending 24 through it would fry it and I'm not sure what all else.
The Specs on the web page and on the board itself indicate that it is able to handle 7-24 volts, is this a typo?


Interesting... I stand corrected.  What's interesting is that the spec sheet actually states 36V. When I was designing my boards, I explicitly excluded the OKI's and the voltage range was one reason, although the main reason was only 7.5W (1.5A).    I wanted to make sure we have the full 2A.   That said, that was several years ago... I'm likely mis-remembering.  The AMP rating was definitely the #1 reason.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 29, 2019, 04:25:49 PM
Poporacer,
Yes, I am using 24 LED Floods and using a 24v PSU
I did have 1&2, 2&3, and PWR PI jumbered. As well as powering the Pi with the 5V wallwart.


I contacted the customer Support and David answered. I stated my set up and jumper setting and didn't get any explanation as to what I could of done differently.


Here is the conversation below.
Customer e-mail address:
Quote
Customer message: Looking for some assistance. Pi hat and Pi. Let the smoke out.
Running 24v (verified voltage) PS, rechecked input/outputs +/- are good (not crossed) on both end PS to Pi hat..
Jumpers 1&2, 3&4 for 7-24v - jumpered
Jumper Pwr P1 -jumpered

No lights connected.

Smoked VR1 and Pi.

I had set up Pi with FPP, a week ago and good to go without Hat? Any ideas as to the issue what could of caused the release?





From David:


Hi
 
Not sure. Have never had a problem with the Picaps.
 
David
Quote
[/t][/q][/q]
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 29, 2019, 04:39:10 PM
I'll re-watch the video and do some more digging.


I'm still confused as to my set up now with all the back and forth regarding the Pi power and whether the board can handle the 24Vdc.


I'm under the impression that the Pwr Pi jumper should be removed if I am supply 24V to the Hat and powering the Pi by itself. I believe this is what blew both the Hat and the Pi. My jumper settings 1&2 and 3&4 are correct as I understand. 


If Falcon is correct about eh 7-24v then I should be fine. At this stage I haven't even hooked up the lights. I was looking for confirmation about my set up.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Sawdust on May 29, 2019, 06:00:25 PM
Poporacer,
Yes, I am using 24 LED Floods and using a 24v PSU
I did have 1&2, 2&3, and PWR PI jumbered. well as powering the Pi with the 5V wallwart.[\B]

I think "As well as powering the Pi with the 5V wallwart." is your issue, but did you smoke both the Pi and the PiCap…..have you separate them and tested them on their own.

Pi is easy---does it boot.
PiCap a little harder without a working Pi, but you still can check voltage points.  Can you do these:
 - Power PiCap.  Do you have volyage at either of the 2 ports - what is the voltage.
- - Remove jumper to power Pi if you have not.  Check voltage for both pins to incoming ground - did you gret a reading?

Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: duddleydo on May 29, 2019, 07:16:52 PM
The Pi is dead. After the smoke was let out I disconnected everything and tested the Pi on it's own. it is smoked.


I have not test in depth the Cap. I watched the Variable resistor smoke the minute power was applied. I don't know the board well enough to trouble shoot it at the component level. What I do know about TS boards is that when you let the smoke out, components need to be changed. 


David got a hold of me and and explained what has been said here in forum. Jumper PWR PI and power applied to both killed the board. Very appreciated the info and the great customer service he applied. 


I applaud everyone who has helped out.
Title: Re: Help verify setup of PICap. Smoke let out...
Post by: Poporacer on May 29, 2019, 09:47:07 PM
Yes, David is great and goes out of his way to help. And now you know the correct configuration!