Falcon Christmas

Falcon Christmas => Falcon Smart String Utility => Topic started by: arw01 on August 09, 2014, 05:27:26 PM

Title: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: arw01 on August 09, 2014, 05:27:26 PM
I always manage to get myself turned around with this.

Computer
Etherdongle
Pixelnet out to active hub
active hub set to universe 2 and universe 2 (on each of the jumper blocks)
passive hub connected to pixelnet out of active hub

uSSC's 4 of them programmed to run my matrix from 4097 and up approx 510 channels

Xlights nutcracker test sequence..

If I load pixelnet universe 2 I get no blinkie

if I load pixelnet universe 2 I get blinkie from the uSSC

So I made a Cat 6 rj45 into a white/.green  blue into pair 1 via this jack and plug the other end into the passive hub since it only looks for data on pairs 1-2 from the input.

again as long as I tell nutcracker channels 1-4096 I have output, when I load universe 2 I get diddly.

SO how messed up do I have myself and my uSSC programming, are they really supposed to be programmed for 1-4096 if they come out of the 4 port passive hub?

Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MrChristmas2000 on August 09, 2014, 05:51:45 PM
Pixelnet universe 1/5 is on pins 1 & 2, Pixelnet universe 2/6 is on pins 3 & 4, Pixelnet universe 3/7 is on pins 5 & 6, and Pixelnet universe 4/8 is on pins 7 & 8.

Each Pixelnet universe is addressed 1 - 4096.

If you programmed a uSC to address 1 and set the jumpers on the hub to universe 2 then the effective address of that uSC would become 4097.

When you use the 'Smart String Grouping' software to program your uSC you will see two address numbers. For example I have an uSC programmed for Pixelnet address 12289 in the boxes under description named Current Start Channel and New Start Channel. If you have never programmed the device all you have to do is enter that address in the New Start Channel box. BUT if I look over in the 'Controllers' section under 'Hub-addr' I will see a value of one which is effectively the start address of the 4th Pixelnet universe of 1 - 4096. The program does the conversion of the Pixelnet address you enter in the New Start Channel to the correct address for that particular Pixelnet universe.

The Pixelnet IN/OUT is effectively pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin2 etc. The Jumpers just divert which ever pair of Pixelnet universe wires into the RJ45 matrix of connectors.

Any Ethernet cable that is not a null cable will be usable.

Oh yeah, dont forget to select the 'V4 controller' button to add in the device.

Does this help any?
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MyKroFt on August 09, 2014, 05:52:14 PM
where are you plugging the passive hub into?

If plugged into 1 of the 16 outputs if you will get same pixelnet unv via the jumpers - W/POWER - do not cross wires to diff locations! running down the cat cable.  If you plug it into the pixelnet out, you are only gonna get unv 1 because its only looking on the orange/orangewhite pair for data

What you really need to a pixelnet combiner/splitter - plug it into the pixelnet output (not ssc outputs) and then select what plug equals what unv you need - then supply 12v via the screw terminals on the passive hub

Tony
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: David Pitts on August 09, 2014, 07:07:46 PM
A four port passive hub?
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: arw01 on August 09, 2014, 07:13:51 PM
Yep 4 port passive hub.

Out of my active hub I am going out the pixelnet out.

I tried straight to pixelnet in on the passive hub and as long as I did nutcracker universe 1 aka 1-4096 I could get blinkie (my uSSC are programmed for 4097- and up)

So I made a RJ45 jack that took the white/green from pin 3 to pin 1, and blue from pin4 to pin 2, thinking that pixelnet universe 2 would be down that set of wires.

Plugged that into the passive hub and I still only get results if I choose universe 1 channels 1-4096, no repsonse on 4097- which is what I expect to be seeing with Falcon Firmware.

Alan
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MrChristmas2000 on August 09, 2014, 07:23:10 PM
I need to correct my earlier post.

The pin pairs are actually PN universe 1 is Pins 1 and 2, PN universe 2 is Pins 3 and 6, PN universe 3 is Pins 5 and 4 and PN universe 4 is pins 7 and 8.

The 4 port passive hub only uses pins 1 and 2.

Someone correct me if I am wrong on this as well.

Pins 1, 3,  5 and 7 basically is the same polarity of the signal and Pins 2, 6. 4 and 7 is the other. Don't remember which is + and -.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: David Pitts on August 09, 2014, 07:30:47 PM
Make cable from active to passive.. pins 3 and 6 on active to 1 and 2 on passive.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MrChristmas2000 on August 10, 2014, 07:25:11 AM
Expanding on this further would someone confirm that this information is correct.

RJ45 Signal Layout for IN/OUT through connections
Pin 1 Pixelnet Universe #1 A (White w/Orange Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
Pin 2 Pixelnet Universe #1 B (Orange w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 3 Pixelnet Universe #2 A (White w/Green Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 4 Pixelnet Universe #3 B (Blue w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 5 Pixelnet Universe #3 A (White w/Blue Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
Pin 6 Pixelnet Universe #2 B (Green w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
Pin 7 Pixelnet Universe #4 A (White w/Brown Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)
PIn 8 Pixelnet Universe #4 B (Brown w/White Stripe - EIA/TIA 568B)

All output jacks on both smart and dumb hubs are:
RJ45 pin 1 (Signal Name) A (AKA) Pixelnet Universe #1 A
RJ45 pin 2 (Signal Name) B (AKA) Pixelnet Universe #1 B

One thing further if you have an extra empty port off of a 16 port hub you can just connect the four port passive hub there (since it is going to have it's own power supply anyway) and not mess with building cross over cables. That's how I use my 16 port hub to distribute extra signals across the yard.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: arw01 on August 10, 2014, 12:49:07 PM
will give that  a try, Tom.  What pushed me in the direction of moving pins 3-4 to pins 1-2 from the cat 5 jack is this pdf from rj's site that made me think 1-2 universe 1  3-4 universe 2 5-6 universe 3 7-8 universe 4 straight off the cat 5 jack.



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Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MyKroFt on August 10, 2014, 01:18:05 PM
Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: arw01 on August 10, 2014, 01:22:31 PM
Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

A passive hub pixelnet in port only carries pairs 1-2 to the other ports, no chance of power going either way.  Hence the need to custom do a cable to bring other universes down apparently.

Alan
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MrChristmas2000 on August 10, 2014, 01:30:44 PM
Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The diyla 4 port passive hub only connects to pins 1 and 2 which are signal. There is no other connections to the incoming power for that passive hub. It requires that you have a separate power supply for the 4 ports.

You are correct you cannot plug a 16 port hub into the port of another 16 port either Falcon or diylia hub because of the power on pins 3  to 8.

It is ONLY the diyla 4 port passive hub that can be safely connected that way.


Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MyKroFt on August 10, 2014, 03:14:33 PM
It is still not safe or recommended - you are still sending power down those wires to a device - it was never meant to be connected that way.

Tony


Don't connect anything to ssc output but a ssc.  Chaining a hub off of a ssc port sends power down to the chained device.  In this case the 4 port passive, when power applied will try and send it back up to the ssc port and then possible smoke.   if a f16 plugged into a ssc hub port, you will fry it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The diyla 4 port passive hub only connects to pins 1 and 2 which are signal. There is no other connections to the incoming power for that passive hub. It requires that you have a separate power supply for the 4 ports.

You are correct you cannot plug a 16 port hub into the port of another 16 port either Falcon or diylia hub because of the power on pins 3  to 8.

It is ONLY the diyla 4 port passive hub that can be safely connected that way.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on August 10, 2014, 05:18:05 PM
I believe the diagrams on the DLA wiki show that exact scenario, daisy chaining a DLA 4-port passive hub off of one of the 16 outputs on a DLA 16-port hub.  http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=PassiveHub4Use. It isn't clear but the diagram indicates that this was part of the design. 

I agree there still is the possible issue of danger as Tony describes.   Whichever method you use to feed the passive hub you should label the cables carefully because there is just about as much danger in having an unmarked universe crossover cable as there is in plugging a 16-port hub into one of the powered output ports on another 4 or 16 port hub.  If you use that crossover in the wrong place you could put 12v across the wrong wired on a SSC or at minimum blow a fuse on the hub.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: MrChristmas2000 on August 10, 2014, 07:19:23 PM
Ok, I do agree if there is a problem with the cable that it carrying power could cause some damage.

I used it the way the DLA spec called for last year without problem. I believe it should be up to the individual if they want to chance doing it that way or not.

I think we have beat this subject into submission. LOL.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: Steve Gase on August 10, 2014, 09:11:43 PM
I need to look at this, but I believe the 4pt passive hub copies pins 1+2 from the input to each of the 4 outputs (1+2).
It drops the incoming pins 3-8 and applies the 12v power that is connected to the screw-down terminals to the 4 outputs -- (pins 3-5/12v and 6-8/ground)

so you can take pixelnet from an EtD with 4 universes -- or powered pixelnet from any of the output ports (powered or non-powered) and it will work great for you.

if you need to use the other universes 2, 3, or 4 -- then use a combiner to separate the 4 universes, and use output #4 from the combiner as input to the 4pt hub (if you needed universe #4)
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: David Pitts on August 10, 2014, 10:36:48 PM
Great post. Forgot about combiner. So there are three ways now.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: danj on August 16, 2014, 09:37:10 AM
Can't figure out how to start a new post, so can I kind of hijack this one?  I used "normal" DMX last year with my E682.  This year I will be learning pixelnet as I will be using DLA hubs and an FPD along with micro controllers  Is there a "how to" that I can read that will help me get started with respect to the "ins and outs" of pixelnet?  Thanks very much!
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: drlucas on August 16, 2014, 10:40:54 AM
Can't figure out how to start a new post, so can I kind of hijack this one?  I used "normal" DMX last year with my E682.  This year I will be learning pixelnet as I will be using DLA hubs and an FPD along with micro controllers  Is there a "how to" that I can read that will help me get started with respect to the "ins and outs" of pixelnet?  Thanks very much!

I hope that the admins here don't get too upset with me for posting this link...but hey you said you are using DLA so I guess it's OK to link to another site...

http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Introduction_to_SmartStrings.pdf

That file might help you understand how to get started.
Cheers!
Ryan
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on August 16, 2014, 11:16:33 AM
I hope that the admins here don't get too upset with me for posting this link...but hey you said you are using DLA so I guess it's OK to link to another site...

http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Introduction_to_SmartStrings.pdf

I think I'm safe in saying that no one is going to get upset over this.  We are for open information and discussion.  If it is has to do with blinky and is legal :) then it's probably fair game.  There is no question too technical and no question too 'stupid' to ask, we're all here to help each other.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: arw01 on August 16, 2014, 11:29:14 AM
Can't figure out how to start a new post, so can I kind of hijack this one?  I used "normal" DMX last year with my E682.  This year I will be learning pixelnet as I will be using DLA hubs and an FPD along with micro controllers  Is there a "how to" that I can read that will help me get started with respect to the "ins and outs" of pixelnet?  Thanks very much!

And please send an email to jim at sandevices asking for pixelnet to be added to the e682 etc as an output type option   as well. 

 :D
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: danj on August 17, 2014, 09:02:38 AM
Thanks for that info Ryan.  Sorry I wasn't clear---I plant to exclusively use micro controllers this year.  I plan to sell my E682 sometime this year; haven't decided when.  My E682 was fantastic last year (worked like a champ!!!), but I have decided to go to "distributed control" devices instead of one "centralized control" device because I plan to have widely separated elements in my yard and I don't want to deal with null pixels to address the distance issue.
Title: Re: confused on universe 2 with passive hub
Post by: arw01 on December 10, 2014, 11:27:31 PM
Well it too way too much brain power to confuse myself thorougly from the answers here, but in the end I have the matrix up tonight on a passive hub on universe #2.

I have used a cat 5e Keystone jack with the Green white wire that would be #3 in the cable to the orange white position of the keystone which makes it pin 1 on the cable after the keystone.  And the solid green into the solid orange of the keystone so that it becomes pin 2 on the cable plugged into the keystone.

This being the B wiring scheme on the Keystone.

WAY too much head scratching.  Now I need to wire up a real power supply for it tomorrow as my premium 6amp supply was cycling with alternating white on xlights, so I put my Ray Wu 6 amp on it which won't complain as much and will just melt   :o

Alan