Falcon Christmas

Other Controllers and Hardware => General Hardware => Topic started by: JohnW on November 06, 2016, 04:37:57 AM

Title: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JohnW on November 06, 2016, 04:37:57 AM
Hi everyone,


Great forum!


I am new here and would really appreciate some of your helpful advice.




I would like to build a P10 matrix screen made of 320 x 160 modules with around 6 x 6 having a total of 1920 x 960 pixels. using a Matrix such as https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/P10-rgb-SMD-3in1-full-color-indoor-LED-Display-screen-unit-board-32-16pixels-320mm-160mm/701799_866772137.html



I would like to use some video, text and patterns on the screen.


By reading other posts and information on here I was thinking of using the following as this appears to be a popular method.
Xlights
FPP
BBB
Octoscroller
Matrix boards


But I am wondering what the options are by using a pi as below?
Xlights
FPP
Raspberry pi 3 Model B
What controller options are recommended to interface to the P10 matrix boards from the pi?
Matrix Boards


What are the pros & cons between these 2 possible methods?   


I hope this question is a reasonable one!


Thanks.


John




 
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: AAH on November 06, 2016, 05:10:54 PM
  For a matrix of that size you have no choice but to use a BBB and octoscroller/octoscrolla. The Pi boards that drive P10 panels are limited to less than 10 panels I think. With a maximum load of typically about 3A per panel you'll need multiple power supplies to handle the maximum of around 100A at 5V.
  I make the octoscrolla boards and have plenty of stock if you're looking for any.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: jnealand on November 06, 2016, 05:38:39 PM
https://ronsholidaylights.com/raspberry-pi-matrix-adapter/ (https://ronsholidaylights.com/raspberry-pi-matrix-adapter/)

You can do 12 panels per output x 3 outputs for 36 boards.  I've only used 4 panels on mine, but they work good.  Was going to try my 16 panel matrix, but did not have cables that would work for that config and I already had a working BBB with Octo so gave up trying the Pi on that one.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on November 06, 2016, 05:43:23 PM
I believe the Pi has been tested to 36 panels.  There is a video in the forum as well.  I can't remember who posted it though.  :(
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JohnW on November 06, 2016, 09:41:57 PM
Thanks everyone for your replies!


Alan, sounds like the BBB is the way to go especially if I were to add a few more matrix modules down the track. Thanks for the info re power. It would appear that if I used 2 x 5v 70 A units it would be ok?


Jim, Thanks for you help & the link to the pi matrix adaptor. Is there anyway to go beyond the 3 x12 matrix modules? If not then I may be best to go with the BBB octscroller option as mentioned by Allan, just in case I decided to add some more modules at some point.


Chris,
Thanks. I will do a bit more searching for the video.


Also, is the 360 x 160 matrix from Ray Wu of good quality or should I be looking at another supplier. It just seems like a minefield out there with so many suppliers and products. I really want to have the matrix to be able to be placed outdoors - I have found some information on the forum regarding using indoor modules & waterproofing them with a frame and plexiglass - Is this as good as buying outdoor modules? 
Thanks again.


John


Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: AAH on November 06, 2016, 09:44:47 PM
I learned something too. Last time I played with my P10 Pi hat it was limited to 3 x 3 P10's. I need to keep up with what's being done with FPP it seems.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: jnealand on November 07, 2016, 08:38:40 AM
To go beyond 36 panels you would have to use two Pi's and two matrix adapters.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JohnW on November 07, 2016, 04:50:25 PM
Thanks Neil - really appreciate knowing that the Pi could do more than 36 panels.
How are the 2 pi to be connected so they both run the matrix? Is it a master/slave config? Is it rather complex to set up?
If it were possible then is there any pros and cons between the BB & Raspberry Pi options or are they basically equivalent?   


Thanks again.
John
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: jnealand on November 07, 2016, 05:08:24 PM
I've never done two Pis on one matrix and I probably would not since the economics would tilt in favor of a single BBB and Octo.  I would be looking at two slaves since my master is used to run the whole show and sits inside my house with my FM transmitter.  I only mentioned it since I have read of folks who do multiple matrices in xlights and group them so that they look like one depending on any given effect.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JonB256 on November 07, 2016, 05:41:45 PM
I have done two RasPi3 P10 panels acting as one panel. See my older post about Frameless Panels http://www.falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php?topic=4894.0

This allows me to set panels side by side or stacked and there is no gap. Each runs as a Remote and they have the same Fseq file, created in xlights as a group.

I currently have two identical 3x3 panels and almost done with two 3x6 panels. I could form a very large matrix from those four panels. They are all RasPi 3 driven so they will sync well.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JohnW on November 09, 2016, 05:45:42 AM
Thanks Jim, I think the BBB seems to be the best option.


Great link to your frame build Jon - full of really useful information.


I haven't quite settled with the pitch that I would use. If I were to use P6 panels of 32*32 what would be the panel number limit using the BBB and Octoscroller? Would the 8 panels per 8 outlets (64 in total) half to 32 in total? Or even less?
 
These panels are outdoor 32*32 P6 - Does anyone know if these are high quality? I understand from other posts that this supplier is recommended.


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Outdoor-P6-192-192mm-32-32pixels-1-8-scan-hub75-port-rgb-full-color-LED-banner/103659_32749323179.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.1.GYNUPS


Thanks again.
John
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on November 09, 2016, 02:22:30 PM
I haven't quite settled with the pitch that I would use. If I were to use P6 panels of 32*32 what would be the panel number limit using the BBB and Octoscroller? Would the 8 panels per 8 outlets (64 in total) half to 32 in total? Or even less?

FPP only supports 4 outputs on the Octoscroller when you use 32x32 panels otherwise the refresh rate really goes down.

Also, you need to check on the scan rate of the outdoor panels even if they have the standard HUB75 interface the Octoscroller uses.  FPP currently supports 1/16-scan 32x32 panels and 1/8-scan 32x16 panels.  A lot of the outdoor panels are 1/4-scan 32x16 or 1/8-scan 32x32.  I have an item on my ToDo list to look at adding support for these other panel types, but I haven't wanted to buy a $25-30 panel just to test the code.

If anyone has one of these unsupported HUB75 panels and wants to loan it to me for a little while then it would help me get the support added to FPP for these other scan rates.  It would be December or January before I could look at it though, so I'm not in a rush.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JohnW on November 09, 2016, 03:13:28 PM
Thanks Captain!  Really appreciate your reply which clearly shows that the 32*32 @ 1/8 scan in my link will not be compatible with the FPP. I will need to rethink the total screen size versus pixel pitch - I really wanted at times to be able to display some video from say 8 to 10 metres viewing distance (and further) but with reasonable clarity.


Thanks again!


John
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: Sulley on December 29, 2016, 09:18:34 AM
Hi CaptainMurdoch,


I have four P6 32x32 1/8 Scan Outdoor LED Panels I can send you if you want to test them with your code. 


Here is the URL to the vendor: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-arrival-P6-outdoor-led-display-panel-192-192mm-1-8-scan-Hub75-3IN1-RGB-led/32632045405.html?spm=2114.13010608.0.0.KAHRX1


I look forward to your reply.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: MarkB on March 04, 2017, 02:23:27 PM
I believe the Pi has been tested to 36 panels.  There is a video in the forum as well.  I can't remember who posted it though.  :(

I have been testing a single row of four panels, and when I scroll text, the text does not appear as it does on the matrix in the FPP.  I am scrolling from right to left.  It appears that the text which should appear on the right most (first) panel immediately does not appear until later, as if the FPP is treating it as the second panel.  In addition, the text on the third and fourth panels appears to be the same.

Am I doing something wrong, or is the Pi limited to 3 daisy-chained panels per port?

Thanks,
Mark
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JonB256 on March 04, 2017, 03:07:35 PM
Mark, post a screen shot (snipping tool) of your LED Panel layout in FPP.

You either have that setup wrong or the ribbon cabling of the P10s (or a combination)
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: MarkB on March 04, 2017, 03:19:31 PM
I have attached the screenshot... Thanks!
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: MarkB on March 04, 2017, 03:33:25 PM
...and here is my pixel overlay configuration.

I am testing with the "4by1_test" configuration.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: JonB256 on March 04, 2017, 04:53:25 PM
Try Top Right

Update - a better answer is, You have this wired as Top Right (looking from the front) but Top Right isn't a drop down choice.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on March 04, 2017, 08:08:34 PM
Make sure your layout is setup as viewed from the front.  If the panels appear backwards that could be the issue.  On the Pi, FPP supports 12 panels per chain so you are well within the limit.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: MarkB on March 04, 2017, 11:34:57 PM
Guys,

The "Top Right" option is only available in the Pixel Overlay Model, but I tried that too, to no avail.

The LED Matrix configuration is set up as my panels are when looking from the front, as I read in other posts... the right-most panel is the first input (P1) and they daisy-chain to the left, where P4 is leftmost.

I still don't understand what I could be missing.  I've played with many of the options and the best configuration I come up with is the one that I provided the screenshots for.  In this configuration, I am not seeing a simple inversion or mirroring of the information.  If I use the Matrix Tools to place a text string as "centered" in the row of panels, the image is displayed as if the panels were wired up as   P4 P4 P3 P2  rather than the expected  P4 P3 P2 P1.

I wonder how this is even possible with the physical wiring of the panels.  Something in the firmware has to be configuring the HUB75 serial data in a fashion that displays this.

What is even more confusing for me is the fact that the display is totally hosed up if I simplify the matrix configuration to specify 4 x 1 with the P4-P3-P2-P1 arrangement using Output1.  Does that make any sense to anyone?

Mark
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on March 04, 2017, 11:53:10 PM
In matrix tools, you will always want top left or bottom left since that is all the LED panel channel outputs support.

Try configuring for one panel only on output one and run a test.  If you configure only one panel then I believe all 4 panels on that first chain will display identical info, but I have never tested that on a Pi.  If you can display something on one panel correctly then tell FPP you have two panels side by side and see if that works.
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: MarkB on March 05, 2017, 05:57:56 AM
Interesting....

Testing a 1x1 works fine... so long as the pixel overlay model is also declared as 1 panel in size - I get the same centered text on all four panels.

Testing a 2x1 with a 2x1 pixel overlay model does not work.  In that test, I get parts of the "test" text in the lower two corners of each panel, as if the Matrix Tools or the pixel overlay model was attempting to drive the message on a 2x2 panel array.

I have attached a screen shot of my setup screens in that configuration... can you see anything wrong?

Thanks!
Mark
Title: Re: P10 Matrix panels Pi or BBB
Post by: MarkB on March 05, 2017, 05:59:44 AM
Very interesting....

If I change my Matrix Tools to specify the 1by1_test model (without hitting the "Go" button, no command sent to update the displays), the screen represents exactly what I see on my four panels.  (See attachment)

If I flip the selection for the model back and forth without hitting the "Go" button, what I see the Matrix Tool screen show on its pixel array is interesting. 

When the 1by1_test model is selected, the screen shows what the panels show.
When the 2by1_test model is selected, the screen shows what I expect to see (this is what was selected when "Go" was last pressed).

After some more playing with the Matrix Tools, I noticed that the "enabled" state is shown for my 2by1_test model, but all other model selections show "disabled".  I am now beginning to wonder if the Matrix Tools are not enabling the model that is shown as enabled, as if the index for the selection box is wrong.

Could something in the Matrix Tools model selection be confused?  Or am I not understanding the meaning of "enabled" and "disabled" for the model selections?

Mark