Falcon Christmas

Falcon Christmas => Falcon NEO (PI Matrix Board) => Topic started by: shanebou24 on February 26, 2017, 07:43:32 AM

Title: P10 VS P.*
Post by: shanebou24 on February 26, 2017, 07:43:32 AM
 why not use P5 or P3?

what's so great about P10?
Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: ThreeSizes on February 26, 2017, 08:02:11 AM
The scan rate of is what drives the preference towards P10 panels. Current code and hardware being used limits use of panels to 1/8 scan rate on HUB75. There is some work in progress to expand this limitation which will open up more possibilities on what panels are supported. If you are interested further, search the forum for ColorLight and LINSN.

Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: shanebou24 on February 26, 2017, 09:01:57 AM
cant to just tell FPP your p5 panels are two p10 panels ?
Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: CaptainMurdoch on March 01, 2017, 10:27:04 PM
FPP supports 1/8 scan on 32x16 panels and 1/16 scan on 32x32, 64x32, and 64x64 panels, although the 64x64 I have seen are actually two 64x32 panels in the same frame with dual two sets of inputs and outputs.

cant to just tell FPP your p5 panels are two p10 panels ?

Talking about P5 vs P10 in this context is like saying that you use 8mm LED's in your display, it means almost nothing.  The '5' and '10' are just physical measurements, they have nothing to do with the actual input signal which uses a HUB75 interface.  You then have to know what scan rate the panels are using.  There are 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and now 1/32 scan rate panels.  The libraries that FPP uses only support 1/8 and 1/16 scan rate, although I am working on creating a new pair of channel outputs which can directly drive the commercial receiver boards that businesses use to drive these panels.  Once this code is added to FPP, FPP will be able to support all of the scan rates since the scan rate will be handled by the dedicated receiver board and not a general-purpose Pi or BBB computer.
Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: zwiller on March 02, 2017, 11:22:39 AM
The actual decision for using different panel Pitch is just distance to viewing.  I am a little closer to street and think P10 is not going to look as good as would be for someone else farther back in their lot.  That said, when I first looked at P10 panels a few years ago they were $30+ and now they are so popular ($10) it might be foolish to pass up on their value even they won't look as "high def" as I would like. 

Once this code is added to FPP, FPP will be able to support all of the scan rates since the scan rate will be handled by the dedicated receiver board and not a general-purpose Pi or BBB computer.

This is kinda the reason I have been holding off but also plan to approach panels as a video concept and not sequencing/channels and have not quite figured that out yet but hoping the new hardware move us in this direction. 
Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: RealtorMike on December 13, 2017, 05:21:06 PM
I am considering doing a portable matrix with battery pack using either the Pi with Nano PiHat or BBB with Octo utilizing FPP, but would like something brighter and more sharp than a P10.  I am seeing a wide variety of panels at 1/8 and 1/16 scan rates that will utilize 5v.  I'm seeing P3, P4, P5 & P6 that are 16x32, 32x32 and 64x32. My matrix will only be 4 or 6 panels, will these panels work?  I prefer something that will work in daylight, but that technology may be still in progress.  Here are some other panels I have been checking out.  Let me know your thoughts.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/64x32-indoor-RGB-hd-p5-indoor-led-module-video-wall-high-quality-P2-5-P3-P4/32754158226.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.Kb1RKZ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_51102_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_5130015_10609_10541_10084_10083_10307_5690015_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_5060015_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d-0&algo_pvid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d&rmStoreLevelAB=0 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/64x32-indoor-RGB-hd-p5-indoor-led-module-video-wall-high-quality-P2-5-P3-P4/32754158226.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.Kb1RKZ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_51102_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_5130015_10609_10541_10084_10083_10307_5690015_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_5060015_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d-0&algo_pvid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d&rmStoreLevelAB=0)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/64x64-indoor-RGB-hd-p3-indoor-led-module-video-wall-high-quality-P2-5-P3-P4/32757647402.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.153.Kb1RKZ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_51102_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_5130015_10609_10541_10084_10083_10307_5690015_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_5060015_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d-20&algo_pvid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d&rmStoreLevelAB=0 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/64x64-indoor-RGB-hd-p3-indoor-led-module-video-wall-high-quality-P2-5-P3-P4/32757647402.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.153.Kb1RKZ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_5000015_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_51102_10546_10340_10341_10548_10545_5130015_10609_10541_10084_10083_10307_5690015_10539_5080015_10312_10059_10313_10314_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10594_5060015_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d-20&algo_pvid=359e8084-51d3-40be-a29f-248f1ac0bd0d&rmStoreLevelAB=0)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SMD-P4-Indoor-full-color-LED-module-128mm-128mm-1-16-scanning-32dots-32dots-RGB-Hd/32250605175.html?spm=2114.search0104.0.0.JqUvNe (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SMD-P4-Indoor-full-color-LED-module-128mm-128mm-1-16-scanning-32dots-32dots-RGB-Hd/32250605175.html?spm=2114.search0104.0.0.JqUvNe)
Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: jnealand on December 13, 2017, 09:06:08 PM
My portable 4x4 P10 looks plenty bright inside well lit convention centers and inside my house.  It does run for a full day on a cell phone battery charger pack.  I also have the equivalent size in a P5 but I have not tried running it on the battery pack.  In a convention center the brightness is about the same to my eye, but the image is much better as you would expect from having four times the pixel density.  In both cases I am using a Pi3 with a RonP matrix adapter.
Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: JonB256 on December 13, 2017, 09:14:54 PM
The Beaglebone, running Dan Kulp's image, supports many more panel types and scan rates than the Pi.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: P10 VS P.*
Post by: dkulp on December 14, 2017, 06:38:47 AM

The P3 you linked to will not really work.   It's a 1/32 scan.   The Octo doesn't support 1/32 at all (we'd need one more address line which would mean dropping an output).   I think SOME of the Pi hats have the extra address line so MAY work.   However, at 1/32, the refresh rate is 1/2 of the 1/16 refresh and is quite noticeable, particularly if you chain 3 or more together.  With the P3 being so small, you kind of need to chain a bunch of them so flicker will likely be noticeable.   Definitely stick with 1/16 or better.

For P5, there are really 3 kinds of panels.   The cheapest is the indoor "Cost effective" 1/16 scan:
These use a smaller LED which isn't quite as bright.   These are what I use in my "TuneTo" sign.   Since I don't run the TuneTo sign at full brightness, the brightness wasn't an issue.

The second is the regular 1/16 scan, like:
Larger LED, brighter.

The third kind is when you get into the non-1/16 scan - usually 1/8 but sometimes 1/4 scan.   These are normally "outdoor" panels due to the brightness.    Let me emphasize:  these are BRIGHT.   With 1/16 scan on full white, at any give time, 1/16th of the pixels (or 2 rows out of 32) are on.   With 1/8 scan, that is 4 rows out of 32, so twice as bright.   Also twice the power.   

I don't believe the Pi supports the 1/8 scan and 1/4 scan panels.   The BBB supports one kind of 1/8 scan panels.   When it comes to outputting more than 2 rows at once (ex: 1/8 scan on 32 rows or 1/4 scan on 16 rows), I've seen two methods:
1) The P10 1/4 scans I have tested use an interleave where the data is output for 8 pixels on row 1, then 8 pixels on row 5, then 8 back on 1, then 8 on 5, etc....   I LIKE these as configuration is independent of the panel size as long as the panel width is divisible by 8.

2) A P5 1/8 scan I was sent outputs all 64 pixels on the first row, then all 64 pixels on the other row.  This is more problematic as if you get 32x32 panels  instead of 64x32, the code/configuration needs to change.   That said, it's something I can easily do in the BBB code if need be.

All of that is kind of why the various "normal" driver cards (Linsn/colorlight/etc..) generally have a configuration "wizard" that walks you through various things.   You hook up a panel and it lights up some lights, asks you what you see, lights up some more, asks again, etc...   What it's doing is figuring out the scan rate (do you see 2 or 4 rows) and the interleave (do you see 8 pixels on two rows or 16 pixels on 1 row) and the row indexing (is it row 1 and 5 or row 1 and 2) and stuff.  I keep thinking I need to do something similar for the BBB, but that's a lot of time I don't have right now.

Anyway, that's a lot of technical info.   For your use case, I would SUGGEST either of the P5 indoor options for the stuff you want to display indoors.   At full brightness, they are more than adequate for any of your indoor rooms, even if they get a lot of sunlight in the rooms.    For the "out by the curb" sign that may have sun directly shining on it, I'd likely go with the 1/8 scan P5's.   

Finally, for driving it, I obviously prefer the BBB based things.   Don't go with "Beaglebone Green Wireless" as the current Octo's cannot work with it.   Any of the other BBB's should work fine.  Alternatively, I do have a new Octo that will work (6 outputs) if interested.   That said, I am also testing a new "PocketScroller" that is 6 outputs off a PocketBeagle.   The output works, but I'm still figuring out how to power the USB port, but should have that resolved soon (parts from Digikey should be delivered tomorrow).   Hopefully can group buy early next year.